Drivers + Flying Scotsman

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Marilyn3
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Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by Marilyn3 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:22 am

Hello, my name is Marilyn, I live in Australia and have just been told that my Grandfather Robert DODDS was a driver of the famous Flying Scotsman.It would appear through the little Family History that I have done so far, that several of my ancestors worked on the railways in Northumberland and Durham - (one actually suffered a massive stroke and died on the platform at Grantham!!!), as firemen /drivers.What is the best way for me to be able to access information about them. Am I likely to be able to retrieve any personal records re their service.?Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Marilyn
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Flamingo
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Post by Flamingo » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:23 am

1. First look at the top thread A Note For Genealogical Researchers. This gives links to the UK National Archives at Kew which has a collection of railway staff records.

2. The next thing you need to find out is whether the Flying Scotsman that your ancestor drove refers to a specific locomotive (LNER no. 4472 which was named 'Flying Scctsman') or to the train that departed from Kings Cross at 10.00 a.m. , which was also known as the Flying Scotsman. To complicate matters further locomotive no. 4472 Flying Scotsman would sometimes have hauled the 10.00 Kings Cross to Edinburgh Flying Scotsman train in LNER days. So the two are easily and very frequently confused.

Marilyn3
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Post by Marilyn3 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:29 am

Thanks Flamingo - we have a saying here in Oz - "Life wasn't meant to be easy"and it looks like this one isn't going to be. I had no idea that FLying Scotsman could mean more than one train.Unfortunately there is no one I can check with as my parents.grandparents etc. have all passed over.
Onwards and upwards as they say.
Marilyn in Oz

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Flamingo
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Post by Flamingo » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:45 pm

Do you know where your grandfather lived or what depot he was based at? Engine no. 4472 could have been driven at various times by crews at any one of a number of depots on the system, but the 10.00 Kings Cross to Edinburgh Flying Scotsman train (and its southbound counterpart also known by the same name) would have been a regular working for men at only a few depots.

Probably you already know that engine no. 4472 visited Australia about 20 years ago and ran public trips there. I know of someone who was a member of the support crew and drove 4472 on some of its runs there. He worked on the footplate from Kings Cross loco shed in steam days and now lives in Oz. Its a long shot, but just possible that if your grandfather was based at the same loco depot my contact might know the name.

Marilyn3
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Post by Marilyn3 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:17 am

G'day Flamingo and thanks again for your email.I know little of my Granda's life. In my family history files I have a couple of pages from the North Eastern Railway Servants Pension Society records that show that his father - my Gt. Grandfather also Robert DODDS was employed by them - the page shows him as a Steamraiser in the Loco Dept. at Blaydon (Durham??)in 1890.
All I know of my Granda is that he was born in Gateshead and on his marriage cert dated Marc 1920 he was married at Gateshead Register Office and living at Winlaton, occupation Locomotive Fireman.It was recent information from my brother who lives in Wiltshire, that our Dad used to carry a photo in his wallet of Granda and him in the cab of the "Flying Scotsman". They were both known for "embelishing the truth" a little at times, but I would like to know either way.
I think any association with your friend in Oz would indeed be a long shot ;-)
Regards Marilyn
I am grateful for all your help.
Marilyn in Oz

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Flamingo
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Post by Flamingo » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:12 am

I think your best bet is the National Archives at Kew. The catalogue lists quite a lot of records from the North Eastern Railway and LNER:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/

It sounds as if your grandfather came from the north east of England and might well have worked from Gateshead depot. Men from that depot probably did work the Flying Scotsman train for part of its journey. The dates suggest that he would have retired before my contact joined the railways.

Does the photograph that you mentioned show the number of the engine on the side of the cab? The picture could be of engine LNER no. 4472 Flying Scotsman, which was a famous locomotive well known to the public. Even in recent years people here know all about it and like to have their photographs taken in, on, or near it - not at the moment though because it is currently under repair! Or it could be of a different engine which happened to be hauling the Flying Scotsman train when the picture was taken.

Marilyn3
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Post by Marilyn3 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:24 am

Hi Flamingo - I have forwarded your emails onto my brother. I hope that at some time in the not too distant future - he might be able to plan a trip to Kew on my behalf - can't see any possibility of me getting there :(
In the meantime this has fuelled my interests in Family History again and I will keep watching the site. Can you tell me when the NER became the LNER? I just wonder what sort of trips he may have done other than long haul...I left the NE in 1957 at the age of 9 when my Mam died, so have little knowledge of the areas, what seemed to be an epic journey from one town to another as a small child probably amounts to a couple of miles in real time...
Regards and thanks so much for your help thus far
Marilyn
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Flamingo
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Post by Flamingo » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:32 pm

The LNER came into being in 1923 through the merging of older companies such as the North Eastern, Great Northern and others.

Yes I think someone will have to go to Kew to see the records at first hand. Their catalogue lists many files containing staff records from the NER and the LNER but says little about the contents of each file. It could be a long search with no guarantee of success.

It would be nice to get a look at that photograph you mentioned to see if the engine number is visible and also if your relatives are in railway uniform or just watching. That might give a clue to their type of work.

Loco crews from Gateshead depot had a variety of work in and around the Newcastle area. Senior drivers would have worked on the main line north as far as Edinburgh and south to York or beyond. In 1928 the Flying Scotsman trains began to run non-stop in each direction between London and Edinburgh. Crews from Gateshead depot did work it along with men from London & Edinburgh. Such jobs were called lodging turns and it meant 2 nights away from home for those concerned. The men used to stay overnight in railway hostels at each end of the journey and returned the next day.

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Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by jsmiththfc » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:39 am

Interested to read the little exchange. I am told that my Great Uncle, Francis Gare, was a driver of the Flying Scotsman too. Now whether this was the train or the actual loco i'm not sure!

However he lived in Battersea so having seen the comments regarding the fact that the driver would have had to have been from a certain depot to drive the particular train, I now wonder if this can actually be true as it seems more likely he drove for the Southern Railway!

Can anybody throw any light on this?

John

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Re: Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by jay » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:49 am

Its amazing how many people's dads/grandads drove flying scotman :shock:
If you go to a railway event where the public are allowed onto the footplate you always get atleast one.
The LNER must have employed 1000's of top-link drivers :? :lol:

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Re: Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by silver fox » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:00 pm

jay wrote:Its amazing how many people's dads/grandads drove flying scotman :shock:
If you go to a railway event where the public are allowed onto the footplate you always get atleast one.
The LNER must have employed 1000's of top-link drivers :? :lol:
precisley the point why the 10:00 train got renamed to THE Flying Scotsman to distinquish between the two!
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Re: Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by Boris » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:27 pm

Re Jays answer above. I worked on the L.N.E.R / B.R. for 8 years and never even saw the FLYING SCOTSMAN.
Either the loco' or the train
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manna
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Re: Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by manna » Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:41 pm

G'Day Gents
The Flying Scotsmans, train and loco has been around for a long time now, before the famous pile up at Abbotts Ripton and that was in the 1870's, we're talking generations, now not just years, I have never worked or even been on the Flying Scotsman (train) but I've played around with the empty coaches on many occasions 8)
manna
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Re: Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by chris madder » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:16 am

Hello Marilyn, my name is Chris Madder I live in NZ but was born in England and have been here for 15 years. I have an Uncle back in England who had crewed on the Flying Scotsman (4472) as a fireman I recently had to go back to Leicester in the uk for my mothers funeral, I had a long chat with my uncle about his time spent working on the railways and particularly the Flying Scotsman he showed me a book he had on the railways in and around Leicestershire which illustrated not only the locomotives etc but also some of the drivers/firemen, one of the photos was of a driver called Dodds I pointed the photo as a matter of curiosity to my uncle who recognised him as 'Doddy' My Uncle's name is Colin Thompson. I apologise if this information is out of date but I went online to find out if there was a list of drivers/firemen that had crewed the 'Scotsman' and I came across this LNER Encyclopedia website.
Chris

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Re: Drivers + Flying Scotsman

Post by 52D » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:12 pm

manna wrote:G'Day Gents
The Flying Scotsmans, train and loco has been around for a long time now, before the famous pile up at Abbotts Ripton and that was in the 1870's, we're talking generations, now not just years, I have never worked or even been on the Flying Scotsman (train) but I've played around with the empty coaches on many occasions 8)
manna
It would be called the Scotch Express in those days manna, in my research into the Marshall Meadows crash of August 1880 when the South bound train derailed that is the name mentioned in the inquest. It is often overlooked that there were North and South bound departures from Kings Cross & Waverley at 10.00.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.

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