The Fireman on A4 Silver Link – 27th September 1935

[73D]

This September will see the 75th Anniversary of Silver Link’s historic press run when it averaged 100 mph for 43 miles and continuously sustained over 100 mph for 25 miles, with a peak of 112 mph near Sandy.

The crew were driver A. Taylor and fireman J. Luty. I know that A. Taylor’s first name was Arthur, but I’m trying to discover what J. Luty’s first name was. I have found a later reference to an inspector called Jack Luty and wonder if this is the same chap.

I like to give full credit to the workers on the footplate, so it would be nice to find out the first name. Anyone know?

[stembok]

'British Steam Locomotives At Work', O.S.Nock, 1967 mentions on p.130 a trip on the footplate of 4476 (Taylor's regular engine) with driver Taylor and fireman Jack Luty on the 13.20 K/X-N/cle.

[Andy W]

When I started at KX in the 1970's I worked in the same office as Grace Goddard, the daughter of Arthur Taylor. When Grace was a young girl she used to go down to her local station to see her dad go through on 'Lancer and give him his snap. She would hold out the basket and he would then slow down and pick it up in one graceful swoop of the arm - he never missed! Grace used to say that he would then "put 'Lancer up into the roof" and in a few moments he would be gone. I believe he retired during WW2, the same time Grace was driving fire engines around London. She still drove rather fast in the 1970's, terrorising the residents of Hadley Wood in her Marina coupe.

The Taylor family were real GN. Grace had two brothers on the job, the eldest Arthur became the X day Chargehand at Top Shed (see my old Guv'nor P.N.Townend's book), Charlie worked in the road motors at Battlebridge Road where he was much sought after for difficult jobs. A third brother joined at KX Goods Yard but left after a short while.

Grace had worked at the Divisional Office at G.N.House as a typist and she was very,very good at it. Double roneo skins were easy to her and when she could have retired, she went instead to the Depot Managers office at KX Stn where she was the Depot Managers Typist in Room 125 West Offices.

When I joined Harry Billing had recently retired and "whispering" Bob Harris was in charge (see memories page 4 for one of his PX's). Because Grace knew not only the drivers but probably their dads as well she didn't stand for any old rubbish. Once a driver appeared wanting to see the guv'nor to complain his pay was 10p out. She called him all the names under the sun, pulled out her purse and said " Call yourself a man - here you are", holding out a 10p piece! He quietly slunk away.

She always reckoned her Dad could've got Silver Link to 115+ without any bother. The letter that Gresley wrote to her Dad is reproduced in "Top Shed".

[73D]

Thanks Stembok; it seems my assumption was correct and it is Jack, although I expect he was Christened John!

Andy; very nice piece about Grace and welcome to the forum. As usual the forum has come up with interesting information.

While I was checking postal charges I noticed that the Post Office is to issue a set of stamps on 16th September called Great British Railways – will we be seeing Silver Link on one! It would seem odd if it wasn't connected to the 75th Anniversary of Silver Link's run.

[stembok]

Andy W & 73D: In a Trains Illustrated for 1959 there was a short obituary for Arthur Taylor who retired in 1941 so he had a decent retirement, given the retirement ages in those days. In 'A Gresley Anthology' , pub, Wild Swan, 1994 there is a short personal account by Arthur Taylor of the events of 27/9/35. When driver Taylor was working the up 'Coronation' 1937-39 he would give two blasts on the A4's chime whistle passing Oakleigh Park, where he lived, as a signal to his wife that he would be home on time at ten past eleven!

[61070]

Although there's not much information about Jack Luty his name is quite unusual, so I did a a check in the 1911 census for people with the name Luty who were born between 1901 and 1911 (ie aged 24-34 at the time of the run).

It revealed one Jack (b.1910), two Johns (b.1911, 1902), a John H. (b.1903) and a John W. (b.1908); all were born either in Yorkshire or Lincolnshire.

I appreciate that without further clues it's not going to be possible to identify which one of the above it was who fired on that run (always remembering that some people were not recorded in the census, that census data is not infallible, and that it could have been a younger man). However, there is additional family information in the census records for each of the above, and it might be a starting point for further research.

[73D]

A couple of bits I have found on the internet are listed below

On Ancestry.co.uk Jonathan Foyle wrote on 25 March 2005 –
My mother was a Luty; Norma, born 4 May 1935. Her father was Tom Luty, a signalman on the LNER railway, and his brother Jack was the fireman on the famous Flying Scotsman.
I expect it is the usual confusion over the locomotive and train title. I wonder if Jonathan knows he has a much more important claim to fame! He goes on to say the name Luty seems to derive from the Italian surname Luti.

Also in R Hardy's photo collection there is reference to a Jack Luty who is a District Traffic Inspector – is this the same one?
RH369 This happy crowd were some of my RH men in my short stay of 7 months at Lincoln preparing the District to enter (against its wishes) the new Doncaster Division in June 1964. It was very much a learning experience for here I was, a Loco man, following a legendary Traffic Manager and Commercial man, Harry Graham. Ernest Needham, Chief Clerk, Harry Amos once again and Jack Luty, District Traffic Inspector, brother of Bill Luty ex Immingham and now KX Running foreman. There was a degree of comfort in the old coach and it served us well; always know as the “Special”.

[61070]

73D: This page from the in the 1911 census (see attached) could show the Jack Luty mentioned by Jonathan Foyle

It's a 'railway family' (father a C&W Examiner) living in Sheffield, with sons including John Hewlitt (Jack?) Luty and Thos James (Tom) Luty, and they seem to have lived in Grimsby before moving to Sheffield between 1907 and 1909. If this Tom was Norma's father he would have been about 26 in 1935, when she was born.

John/Jack's birth was registered in the third quarter of 1902 (from the birth register info), so he would be aged 32/33 in September 1935 if he was on Silver Link's footplate then, and 61/62 in 1964 if he's the man in Richard Hardy's photo.

The apparent 'switch' from footplate to traffic for Jack needs some checking in case they are indeed two different men.

There's no sign of a Bill in the family, but of course he could have been younger and not yet born - according to Jonathan Foyle's message in ancestry, which I found, they had another 6 children after the 7 that had arrived by spring 1911.

None of this is conclusive, but what do you think??

[73D]

61070; it looks as though this is the right chap. The ages you mention would seem to be correct for a top link fireman and traffic inspector.

Glad you managed to work out the middle name as it is a bit indistinct. It is unusual, perhaps Hewlett was a family name on the mother's or paternal grandmother's side.

Looking at the name of the father it is odd that there isn't a son called James, as the wife's, Kathleen, name has been given to a daughter, maybe there was an earlier son that died. The last son on the list has been given the middle name of James though. I wonder how his parents met as she was born in Abergavenny!

Before seeing this I wondered if his father was a John, seeing as he was known as Jack, to differentiate between the two, as happened in my family history.

[52D]

Another fine piece of detective work 61070.

[61070]

Still on the case, I thought I'd try to find Kathleen Ruth Luty (née ???) in earlier census records, to see if the name Hewlitt appeared, but I have come across something which I think goes to show that census records can be fallible, even contradictory. In 1901 James, Kathleen and the two eldest children are living in Grimsby (at 24 Charlton Street), but Kathleen's birthplace is given as Godalming in Surrey, not Abergavenny (see first attachment)!

The spelling I've used above, 'Hewlitt', is that which is printed in the national quarterly list of registered births for the third quarter of 1902, where John (Jack) is listed - see second attachment; I think this is more likely to be accurate than census data. However, despite trying a variety of possible spellings and first name abbreviations, and using both places of birth, I can't find a Kathleen Ruth Hewlitt in 1891 or 1881.

There doesn't appear to have been an infant death in the family that could account for the apparent lack of a 'James', because the 1911 census record states that there had been 7 children 'born alive' - col. 7, of whom 7 are 'still living' - col. 8.

I'm sure this is all much more detail than is needed - one can get a bit carried away!

[73D]

Wow! I hadn't expect such dedication, you are evidently like myself and enjoy a bit of a mystery.

Kathleen's birthplace could just be a error on her part. She could have grown up in Surrey and assumed this was were she was born and didn't find out until she was in her 30s that it was in fact Abergavenny. Although Godalming is now known for being part of the stockbroker belt in the past it was an important centre for tanning, leatherworking and paper, so the family could have moved here for work.

It is surprising how many family's moved around the country following work in the 19th century. It is not a modern thing!

I see they had boarder at this time, who was a housemaid, although I assume this wasn't for them!

[61070]

Have you thought of trying to get in touch with Jonathan Foyle to let him know that his Great Uncle Jack was more than simply another 'fireman on the famous Flying Scotsman', and that his teamwork with Arthur Taylor will be celebrated on a stamp later in the year? I wonder if there will be a steam run by an A4 on the ECML to mark the anniversary?

[Spamcan81]

Have you thought of trying to get in touch with Jonathan Foyle to let him know that his Great Uncle Jack was more than simply another 'fireman on the famous Flying Scotsman', and that his teamwork with Arthur Taylor will be celebrated on a stamp later in the year? I wonder if there will be a steam run by an A4 on the ECML to mark the anniversary?

60019 is booked to run Kings Cross to Newcastle on September 30th, the anniversary of the inaugural public run.

[61070]

Thanks 92 Squadron (?) - I'll try to get to see that somewhere en route.