1960s etc. Ex-GN Main line in London district

[Mickey]

Hello oliverbury nice to hear from you. I see that you worked with Roy Revell on the Midland modernization project of the stPancras-Bedford line back in the late 1970s in that case i assume that you must know DAVE LITTLECHILD a onetime Midland region signalman back in the 1960s/70s who i think was part of that project during the late 70s as well because Dave said that he knew Roy from that modernization project. Dave became some sort of 'Operations manager' on the North London line in the 1980s/90s and eventually became part of the WCML modernization project. Dave finished up 2 or 3 years ago i believe.
Also you mentioned Peter Cleverley, he was a Hitchin relief signalman in the early 1970s. If you go on the LNER DISCUSSION PAGE (page 3) and look up WOOLMER GREEN S/BOX IN AUGUST 1970 i recall a visit that i made to that box one Saturday afternoon when i was a young teenager and Peter was the signalman on duty that afternoon by chance. So Peter died not long after he retired, i am sorry to hear that.
Finally, i see that you knew of KEITH ALDRIDGE (R.I.P.) did you ever know of a signalman called GERRY FORD who was at WELWYN NORTH from about 1968 until the box closed in September 1973?. GERRY use to live in STEVENAGE OLD TOWN i think and after WELWYN NORTH closed he 'jacked the railway in'?.

[Mickey]

Very good point about the block bells Stevie when a number of s/boxes are switched out (of the circuit) the 'ring' from the block bells can become a bit unreliable. (Giving the game away here) i can remember a good example of this happening back around 1984 (i seem to recall) when i was at JUNCTION ROAD JUNCTION (on the TOTTENHAM & HAMPSTEAD line at TUFNELL PARK which is part of the NORTH LONDON LINES) on several Sundays during that summer of '84 JUNCTION ROAD JUNCTION was for some reason working to & from WOODGRANGE PARK (a mile or so from BARKING in East London/Essex) with all the intervening s/boxes being 'switched out' (at UPPER HOLLOWAY, HARRINGAY PARK JUNCTION, SOUTH TOTTENHAM & LEYTONSTONE). The block section between JUNCTION ROAD JUNCTION & WOODGRANGE PARK was about 10 miles long which was 30 minutes travelling time for a x3 car Midland unit to make the 9-station stops along the route. This working started on the Sunday morning and went right through until the end of the passenger service late on the Sunday evening i think i recall when SOUTH TOTTENHAM must have re-opened?. Anyway as mentioned the block bells weren't all that great you would get the odd 'ding or click' from the relay in the block bell also when you 'pegged up' the needle that would be a second or two slower going over to either the 'Line clear' or the 'Train on line' position as well. Thinking about it again i suppose with the block bells becoming indistinct i suppose that could be classed as a 'partial block failure'?. The way the passenger service worked was when 'train out of section' was either given or received by the two s/boxes there was always another train ready to be accepted and 'train on line' was given at the sametime. The only problem that i can recall was that come the Monday morning after ALL THE INTERVENING S/BOXES had re-opened there was a BLOCK FAILURE on the up line due to the 'needle in the block instrument' standing at 'train on line' all of the Sunday so the S&T had to come out and top up the batteries for the block instrument underneath the box at JUNCTION ROAD.
* * * This posting has been amended by me since first posting Micky* * *

[oliverbury]

Interesting to see your reference to Dave Littlechild, Mickey. When I first transferred to the LMR in December 1978 (together with George Croft - just to keep true to the LNER People theme!), Dave was a relief signalman on the Midland. He subsequently got a modernization inspector's job. The following year when the fruits of BedPan electrification afforded me a new car, Dave bought my old Ford Capri - which I seem to remember he wrote off in fairly short order!

I believe both Dave and George went to the Noth London Line in some capacity or other after the end of the old London Division. For myself I went into West Hampstead PSB as Area Supervisor, before returning to the Eastern as ASM at Kings Cross in early 1987. I did re-acquaint myself with Dave briefly in Railtrack days when I was DSM in Kings Cross PSB and he was in charge of some engineering work at Camden Road.

As for Gerry Ford I cannot remember the name, other than the ex-US President, but early in 1973 (whilst I was at Three Counties) I did visit Welwyn North box, and a youngish chap was on duty (similar age to me? - I was twenty-five) I don't remember anything about him, only that a Barford coal came thundering through behind a Class 40.

However I do recall being told by others that whoever he was had two claims to fame. One was nine-belling a loose coupled freight to WGC for carrying a white offside tail light. It had come all the way from Huntingdon on the Up Fast having left the guard behind apparently, and a subsequent blizzard of "please explains" descended on the intermediate boxes! The other was calling the fogmen out on a clear frosty evening when the box windows had steamed up from a continuously boiling kettle!

Whether it was the gentleman of whom you enquire, or whether either story is true I cannot say. Perhaps I'm beginning to share some of Dave Littlechild's sense of mischief.

[StevieG]

" Very good point about the block bells Stevie when a number of s/boxes are switched out (of the circuit) the 'ring' from the block bells can become a bit unreliable. " .... etc. ....

( If any readers are having difficulty finding my post to which Micky has referred, I believe it's the one of 23:37 on Mon.06th Sep. '10, in the "Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970" thread within the "General LNER Discussion" forum. )

[Mickey]

Yes George Croft was a 'operations manager' on the North London line from about 1983 to about 1996 or there abouts then they had one of there reorganizations about the time B.R. went over to Railtrack and the North London line was managed by a load of 'strangers' off the G.E. & the L.T.& S. rather then staying within the old London Midland region mores the pity. George Croft use to live somewhere up around Wolverton, during the 1990s he started spending a lot of his time travelling backwards and forwards on holiday trips to the the U.S.A. I remember George telling me that he worked HOLLOWAY NORTH UP as well as WOOD GREEN UP BOX No4 which he seemed to have fond memories of working so much so as when i mentioned that i had a complete S&T diagram of No4 he asked me could he have it which i gave to him.
I remember being at WELWYN GARDEN CITY one early turn (as the Tele-lad) with Cecil White and the WELWYN NORTH phone rang and there was a young fella about 25 yrs old there at the time (as well as this Gerry Ford fella) who's surname i remember was called HARRINGTON and Cecil answered the phone and this Harrington fella asked Cecil about how would he go about calling out the fogsignalmen?. Cecil told him how to then about a minute later the WELWYN NORTH phone rang again and this Harrington fella says to Cecil something like "It's ok the windows are steamed up due to the kettle boiling!" I remember that because old Cecil thought that was very funny!.
By the way this fella called Harrington after WELWYN NORTH closed in September 1973 he went to HORNSEY No1 for a year then when HORNSEY No1 closed he went to GORDON HILL because i remember i visited him when the NX panel was in GORDON HILL at that time which would have been about the summer of 1975 i think?. I don't know what happened to him after that he may have gone into KINGS CROSS PSB i would have thought that Dave Cockle may well remember him because Dave was at HERTFORD NORTH around the early/mid 70s or StevieG may well have heard of him if he had gone to KINGS CROSS PSB?.

[StevieG]

Like your Mr, Ford, I can't place Mr. Harrington I'm afraid, Micky.
I hadn't heard of him before I went to the PSB in '79 from Fins.Park, and he certainly wasn't on the signalling staff there then or for the next ten years.
As you say, Dave C. might know of him.

[Mickey]

Got'cha Stevie i guess (young) Mr.Harrington 'jacked the job' in after GORDON HILL closed that must have been around 1976 i think?. I am sure Dave Cockle would know him.
Heres a signalman's name from the past hq1hitchin remembers him Stan Crouch a onetime relief signalman around the Hatfield and Welwyn areas but maybe Stan went down towards Hitchin as well?. I didn't really know him but i remember for a year or two Stan was manning a temporary vehicle crossing (i think it was?) beside the up & down slow lines just to the north of Hatfield where the main line curves away towards WGC this would have been around 1972/73. I can remember Harry Fitzgerald's comment about Stan complaining that when the crossing job finished and he had to go back to being a relief signalman Stan 'all of a sudden' was complaining of lumbago!. Harry said "He's stood outside in all weathers and as soon as he's back in the box he's got lumbago!."

[hq1hitchin]

Got'cha Stevie i guess (young) Mr.Harrington 'jacked the job' in after GORDON HILL closed that must have been around 1976 i think?. I am sure Dave Cockle would know him.
Heres a signalman's name from the past hq1hitchin remembers him Stan Crouch a onetime relief signalman around the Hatfield and Welwyn areas but maybe Stan went down towards Hitchin as well?. I didn't really know him but i remember for a year or two Stan was manning a temporary vehicle crossing (i think it was?) beside the up & down slow lines just to the north of Hatfield where the main line curves away towards WGC this would have been around 1972/73. I can remember Harry Fitzgerald's comment about Stan complaining that when the crossing job finished and he had to go back to being a relief signalman Stan 'all of a sudden' was complaining of lumbago!. Harry said "He's stood outside in all weathers and as soon as he's back in the box he's got lumbago!."

Stan Crouch and Roy Revell were alleged to be overtime kings in the old days and there are some stories to be told there. As far as I am aware, Roy is still alive but is a rather private person now, Crouchy died a few years back - 'The old lady of Sish Lane' as Roy once referred to him.

[hq1hitchin]

Interesting to see your reference to Dave Littlechild, Mickey. When I first transferred to the LMR in December 1978 (together with George Croft - just to keep true to the LNER People theme!), Dave was a relief signalman on the Midland. He subsequently got a modernization inspector's job. The following year when the fruits of BedPan electrification afforded me a new car, Dave bought my old Ford Capri - which I seem to remember he wrote off in fairly short order!

I believe both Dave and George went to the Noth London Line in some capacity or other after the end of the old London Division. For myself I went into West Hampstead PSB as Area Supervisor, before returning to the Eastern as ASM at Kings Cross in early 1987. I did re-acquaint myself with Dave briefly in Railtrack days when I was DSM in Kings Cross PSB and he was in charge of some engineering work at Camden Road.
Whether it was the gentleman of whom you enquire, or whether either story is true I cannot say. Perhaps I'm beginning to share some of Dave Littlechild's sense of mischief.

DL sends you his regards, Peter - he reckons he had the Capri for two years - still full of it! Nobody seems to have heard from Geo Croft for a few years, unfortunately

[Mickey]

I think George Croft is still with us i havan't heard otherwise one or two people seem to think that he may have gone and moved to the U.S.A because he started spending a lot of time going over and back during the 1990s. I believe George has a sister living somewhere around the Wolverton area?.
By the way when George was on the London Midland region during the 1980s & 90s he got the nickname 'The farmer' which i think may have come from Dave Littlechild who i seem to recall had nicknames for most people.

[Mickey]

Heres a name that i believe hq1hitchin remembers and maybe a few other's mite as well?. CHARLIE COOPER. Charlie Cooper was a relief signalman (home station WELWYN GARDEN CITY) but apparently NEVER signed WELWYN GARDEN CITY which nodoubt some ex-relief signalmen would say 'good on you Charlie' why bother to sign your home station s/box when theres NO TRAVELLING TIME in it for you?. The thing about old Charlie was that he was one of the nicest people that you could wish to meet, he had that Hertfordshire countryside way about him making him easy going and with a contentment within himself. I will always picture Charlie working on the flowerbeds on WELWYN GARDEN CITY station 40 years gone which for some strange reason he use to spend more time working on than actually pulling levers?. Good old Charlie Cooper.

[barries]

[ Continued from posts up to today (24th August 2010) in the "Welwyn Garden City" thread in 'LNER Discussion' >> 'General LNER Discussion' ]

Some other good names from station etc. management from those '60s-70s times : Eric Graves, Tony Swift, Graham Berlin, Robin Frost, Mr. Woodward, Tony Mead, Bill Coe (never met),
DIs and similar; Harry Beeby, George Culpin, (certainly never met either, lucky for me), Jan Glasscock (met first time a few months ago: Found it quite amusing that, as an 'assistant Signalman', I'd had to keep out of their way in those days), Ted Bosnell, Dave Sutcliffe, Les Lowbridge. Other officers - Rupert Shervington, Charles Wort (became my boss when I was in KX Div.Control), Bryan Wilson, Ron Allder, Jack Somers.

Hi guy's, I see the mention of Tony Swift in the forum. I am a current colleague of Tony's based in Sydney Australia. Although just approaching his 70th birthday Tony is still very much working for the Railways and does his best to keep New South Wales Railways on a straight track.

As he is approaching his 70th year we are planning a celebration and would like to collect best wishes from anyone who worked with Tony back in his "formative years". Stories (embarrassing or not) are most welcome as are personal greetings which we will pass over to him. Please PM me - just in case Tony looks at the forums as well:-)

[Mickey]

Dave (Cockle) i think that you must have missed this previous post of mine (a month ago Dave) but do you remember a young fella (about 25 or 26?) who's surname was called HARRINGTON working GORDON HILL after it had became an NX panel around 1975?. He started at WELWYN NORTH around the summer of 1972 and was at that box when it closed in Sept '73 then he went to HORNSEY No1 for a year until they closed that place then he went to GORDON HILL during 1975 and maybe into 1976?. If you remember Mr.Harrington Dave whatever happened to him?.

[AndyRush]

Good evening all

Whilst sorting photos, I came across the attached which seems to fit with this thread. I can't remember where I got the print from but it says 'Kings Cross 1960' on the back. Any offers of identification for these gents?

Regards

Andy

[StevieG]

Andy,
I can only give you the gent on the left, Charlie Matthews :
He was still signalman there about 1969, when one Saturday morning I was allowed a visit by the Regulator (No, not the ORR), and Charlie gave me at age 18, a rather rapid 'have a go' introduction to that place (it is KX) by reeling off, as fast as possible, "Right then, pull 194, 195, 197, 200, 202, 207", then taking me along (feeling almost as if a schoolboy being pulled along by his ear) to the diagram to point out the route that I had set up (Platf.13-D Route-Down Slow, as far as KC179 at site of Copenhagen Jn.). He appeared rather stern, but I think there was then a brief wry smile, as if possibly impressed that I'd got it right.