1960s etc. Ex-GN Main line in London district

[Mickey]

Oh yes!. The days when railwaymen were RAILWAYMEN. If that picture was taken in 1960 then most of those fella's would have been on the job since the 1920s or 30s and probably all started off as Telegraph lads as well before becoming Signalmen. Money can't buy that kind of experience.

[Mickey]

I remember Dave Tilbury telling me back in '73 that because of the way KINGS CROSS was (then) layed out i.e. with the suburban platforms being on the west side of the terminus 'all' local passenger trains approaching from BELL ISLE would be turned onto the up relief line so it would be better if all local passenger trains were 'turned out' main line at either FINSBURY PARK No4 or HOLLOWAY SOUTH UP s/boxes. Likewise 'some' express passenger trains would be better off being 'turned in' up the slow line at either FINSBURY PARK No6 or HOLLOWAY SOUTH UP s/boxes if they were heading for platforms Nos 1-4. I presume that is what happened in reality on many occasions but thinking about it i reckoned Dave had a good point.

[StevieG]

" I remember Dave Tilbury telling me back in '73 that because of the way KINGS CROSS was (then) layed out i.e. with the suburban platforms being on the west side of the terminus 'all' local passenger trains approaching from BELL ISLE would be turned onto the up relief line so it would be better if all local passenger trains were 'turned out' main line at either FINSBURY PARK No4 or HOLLOWAY SOUTH UP s/boxes. " ....

They HAD to leave Holloway South Up on the Up Fast if they were going to reach the Up Relief (This was the same before and afetr Belle Isle Up box was abolished, until the mid-'70s remodelling). : On emerging from Gasworks Tunnel into the station yard, trains could get to anywhere in the station from the Up Relief (PLat. 1 - "Milk Sidings 1 or 2".
From the Up Fast, you could only get to Plats. 1-4 (old 1-5), and from the Up Slow, access via York Road platform only to either the Up Moorgate ('Up Met.'), or via the tortuous-looking No.8 points to Plat.1.

[Mickey]

Hello Stevie, yes what Dave Tilbury was saying was that all locals/parly's heading for KINGS CROSS suburban platforms would be better being 'turned out' onto the up main line as far back at WOOD GREEN UP BOX No4 which sometimes they were or at FINSBURY PARK No4 again sometimes they were for 'regulating purposes' rather then staying on the up slow line as far as HOLLOWAY SOUTH UP then being 'turned out' onto the up main line. Likewise some up expresses would be better being 'turned in' up the slow line at FINSBURY PARK No6 or HOLLOWAY SOUTH UP rather then staying on the up main line passed HOLLOWAY SOUTH UP if they were heading for platforms nos.1-4. You know what Dave was talking about but some people mite not know what Dave was getting at?.

[Mickey]

Does anybody know if Alan 'pedler' Palmer a onetime Signalman at LOLHAM, POTTERS BAR (new box) HATFIELD No1, WELWYN GARDEN CITY & KINGS CROSS PSB (and maybe several other s/boxes?) retiring in 1989 and last known address (in the 1970s) 'somewhere' around the WELWYN NORTH area know if 'pedles' is still around?. If he is he must be about 80 or abit more by now?.

[Mickey]

The thing about the likes of Johnny May, 'Noggy' Nye & Ted Bosnell atleast they use to look like Signalling Inspector's especially Johnny May he use to scare me when i was about 15 & 16 they all use to walk around in 'all black' B.R. jackets & trousers, Johnny May was always wearing that homburg hat he use to look like a 1930s gangster!. R.I.P. Mr.May

[hq1hitchin]

The thing about the likes of Johnny May, 'Noggy' Nye & Ted Bosnell atleast they use to look like Signalling Inspector's especially Johnny May he use to scare me when i was about 15 & 16 they all use to walk around in 'all black' B.R. jackets & trousers, Johnny May was always wearing that homburg hat he use to look like a 1930s gangster!. R.I.P. Mr.May

The cloth for those double breasted suits was 'Blue serge No9, improved', I seem to recall - much finer material than the rough old stuff dished out to relief signalmen and yard staff

Know what you mean about the homburg, though - Mr Nye favoured a trilby....

[StevieG]

Saw the DI around Marylebone once or twice in about 1970. Tommy Page was the name I think.
At a distance he seemed to be a cheery sort, but was always wearing a bowler when I saw him.

[Dave Cockle]

Got'cha Stevie i guess (young) Mr.Harrington 'jacked the job' in after GORDON HILL closed that must have been around 1976 i think?. I am sure Dave Cockle would know him.
Heres a signalman's name from the past hq1hitchin remembers him Stan Crouch a onetime relief signalman around the Hatfield and Welwyn areas but maybe Stan went down towards Hitchin as well?. I didn't really know him but i remember for a year or two Stan was manning a temporary vehicle crossing (i think it was?) beside the up & down slow lines just to the north of Hatfield where the main line curves away towards WGC this would have been around 1972/73. I can remember Harry Fitzgerald's comment about Stan complaining that when the crossing job finished and he had to go back to being a relief signalman Stan 'all of a sudden' was complaining of lumbago!. Harry said "He's stood outside in all weathers and as soon as he's back in the box he's got lumbago!."

My word! A lot of names that I remember here Micky but not, I'm afraid. Mr Harrington. I have just spoken to Peter Hill who used to be regular signalman at Gordon Hill from 1957 to 1976. Peter's memory is not as good as it used to be but he said he could not remember Mr Harrington and that there were no other resident signalmaen other than himself at Gordon Hill when the panel was put in. All the other turns were covered by Relief men. Peter went up to Wood Green panel when Gordon Hill box closed then when Wood Green box closed he went over to Broxbourne as a relief signalman. I used to go up Gordon Hill box with Peter as an unofficial visitor when I was still at school (1967/68) and learnt a lot about signalling. I even did a complete (unofficial visitor) night shift, at Gordon Hill with a certain relief signalman,
when there were diversions on. The local manager knew of my visits and that I wanted to join the railway on leaving school. He turned a blind eye to these unofficial visits. Cant see this being allowed nowadays.

[Mickey]

Perhaps Mr.Harrington was only at Gordon Hill for a few months after Hornsey no.1 closed and may be he was covering it has a relief signalman but i remember going in the box for about an hour in the summer of 1975 and he was working the box the box had the small NX panel on my visit, i presume that he must have left the railway not long after?.

[Mickey]

Thats the fella Dougal, when i knew him he was at Knebworth s/box when i was at Welwyn Garden City s/box doing the 'lads job' this would have been around 1972-73 i think that he had been at Knebworth since about 1969/70 and remained there until when Knebworth s/box closed in October 1973 then i heard that he had gone to Hitchin yard and then about a year and abit after his move to Hitchin yard i heard that he had gone to Arlesey around about 1975, some reckoned that he was trying hang it out being a signalman as long as possible moving further and further northwards down the main line before the resignalling caught up to him?. Yes Dougal was 'famous' for drinking cans of Coke like you said i remember that the coal scuttle outside Knebworth s/box was FULL of empty Coke cans at onetime!. Whatever happened to Dougal after Arlesey closed he would be in his late 50s by now and after drinking cans and cans of Coke he's probably got NO teeth?.

[MickB]

Thats the fella Dougal, when i knew him he was at Knebworth s/box when i was at Welwyn Garden City s/box doing the 'lads job' this would have been around 1972-73 i think that he had been at Knebworth since about 1969/70 and remained there until when Knebworth s/box closed in October 1973 then i heard that he had gone to Hitchin yard and then about a year and abit after his move to Hitchin yard i heard that he had gone to Arlesey around about 1975, some reckoned that he was trying hang it out being a signalman as long as possible moving further and further northwards down the main line before the resignalling caught up to him?. Yes Dougal was 'famous' for drinking cans of Coke like you said i remember that the coal scuttle outside Knebworth s/box was FULL of empty Coke cans at onetime!. Whatever happened to Dougal after Arlesey closed he would be in his late 50s by now and after drinking cans and cans of Coke he's probably got NO teeth?.

I bumped into 'Dougal' in the Green Man in Ickleford about 10 years ago now and he was working for Johnson and Mathey in Royston (probably was a huge pile of Coke cans outside there too.....). After Arlesey shut, he went to Flitwick and remained there until it's closure. That was his final railway job. MickB

[MickB]

Can't be sure about that Micky, but I know there was also Jack Mead, operations manager at Hitchin at some time (believe he was related to Tony; possibly his father), and was still working there in the HST era, so late 1970s, when a signalling failure at Hitchin ended up with an express (1A06?), cautiously being sent Up Fast to Slow at Hitchin South after 2259 points had been 'wound' Reverse with 'management' in attendance, being slightly derailed there on the relatively new swing nose crossing in the UF, which had been overlooked.

I remember it well as I was on duty at Arlesey that morning. The train involved was actually 1A05, which was the second up Cleethorpes with if I remember correctly had 40071 at the sharp end (though I stand to be corrected on that). The attending Manager involved was Aidan Nelson.....

[Mickey]

Jack Mead or should i say Mr.Mead because when i knew him he was the Station Manager at Welwyn Garden City in 1972, i believe that he went to Hitchin sometime around 1973 in the same position.

So Dougal went on the Midland as a signalman at Flitwick well John Hinson A.K.A. the signalman may well know him then?. I don't think Flitwick s/box close until 1980?.

[laurie1951]

Spot on there Micky, (except it's 'Barr'. He's still fine). 'Fraid I can also remember about 1968 when North still had a Lad apart from nights; - And two regulars doing the job - Laurie King (was later LT signalman at Oakwood I think) and Keith Challon.

I remember John also being on the relief, as far north as Knewborth at least. And he moved into the PSB not too long after its completion, after a spell on the GE ; Think it was thanks to him I once had a brief look at Wormley box one evening.

Well remember my time at Barnet North as telegraph lad, laurie king here just joined forum . remember keith Challon and yes i did end up on London Underground as signalman for over 27 years till medical retirement .