John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

This forum is for the discussion of LNER personalities, and for use by people researching their ancestors.

Moderators: 52D, Rlangham, richard, 2750, Atlantic 3279, Colombo, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:32 pm

Hi, this is my first post and was interested in this forum. My greatgrandfather was John Mark Day 1871 - 1928. I'm not sure if he drove the 4472, but i am led to believe he drive the loco on the first oposite run (Edinborough to London) on the 2580 Shotover. The BBC ran a story about Kingscross on 14th of March and used this photo which shows my great grandfather shaking hands with someone in front of the Flying Scotsman (presumably the Shotover). I would love any more photographs or information on his employment with LNER. Any ideas? Only basic info with National Archives.

Many Thanks
Image

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:06 am

I found this bit of text which mentions him taking over the second half to Kingscross - so at least i am able to confirm the family story 8). Sadly he died later that year.

Enormous crowds gathered at both [London] King's Cross and Edinburgh (Waverley) to witness the departure of the northbound and southbound trains. At King's Cross the Lord Mayor of London, Sir Charles Batho, accompanied by Sir Ralph Wedgwood, Chief General Manager, and Mr H. N. Gresley, Chief Mechanical Engineer of the L.N.E.R, inspected the engine, Pacific No. 4472 Flying Scotsman (later No. 103), and talked with the enginemen. At Waverley Bailie Hay, deputizing for the Lord Provost of Edinburgh, and accompanied by several L.N.E.R officers, gave a send-off to the up [i.e., towards London] express, which was hauled by Pacific No. 2580 Shotover (later No. 81). Both runs were uneventful but for the crowds assembled at most intermediate stations and many other vantage points to watch the triumphant progress of each train. On the southbound journey, which was completed 2 ½ minutes inside schedule, Driver Day and Fireman Gray duly took over halfway from Driver Henderson and Fireman McKenzie. Driver Blades and Fireman Morris similarly relieved Driver Pibworth and Fireman Goddard on the run to Edinburgh, which was reached 12 minutes early; meanwhile, the passengers in their charge made for them a collection that realized £10.

The quotation is from British Steam Horses by George Dow [London: Phoenix House Ltd., 1950], pp. 104f.

User avatar
StevieG
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by StevieG » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:59 am

Hello jday, and welcome.

A notable event indeed in your family's history.

I can't add to what you really want to know, but in case you're not aware but would like to be, your provided photo at King's Cross, although a little off-putting through distortion from side-to-side compression, looks I'm pretty sure, to show the train having arrived in platform 1 - the large clock bracketed out from the background wall looks to be the one board-covered for protection during the current station refurbishment works (though I'm not sure yet that it's still there or working).
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:58 am

StevieG wrote:Hello jday, and welcome.

A notable event indeed in your family's history.

I can't add to what you really want to know, but in case you're not aware but would like to be, your provided photo at King's Cross, although a little off-putting through distortion from side-to-side compression, looks I'm pretty sure, to show the train having arrived in platform 1 - the large clock bracketed out from the background wall looks to be the one board-covered for protection during the current station refurbishment works (though I'm not sure yet that it's still there or working).
Thank you StevieG. I would love to get a good quality copy of this image, so may see if the BBC can help. I do know it appeared in a book, which my parents had a copy made from - it would be a great gift to my father if i could get a real photo created. Checking my ancestry records John Mark Day actually died on 21st May 1928 just 20 days after this event. I will have to visit Kingcross to see the clock.

User avatar
Blink Bonny
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3886
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: The Midlands
Contact:

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by Blink Bonny » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:28 am

Ay up!

I thought that was familiar and there's a good reason why.

The picture is in the Hulton Picture Library and is printed in LNER Reflections, edited by Nigel Harris and published by Silver Link publishing in 1985.

My copy was bought 2nd hand for £5.

This one's even cheaper!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780947971038 ... 971033/plp
If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!

User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: Booborowie. S. Aust

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by manna » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:34 pm

G'Day Gents

Thanks for that BB, I've just bought myself a copy.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

User avatar
61070
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 576
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:22 pm

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by 61070 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:39 pm

The LNER Magazine of June 1928 (Vol.18, No.6) had a feature titled The Non-Stop Flying Scotsman on pages 273-277 in which Driver Day's involvement in the up direction on May 1st is mentioned twice; the photo you've posted appears on page 276. There's a mention that William Whitelaw, the LNER Chairman, presented "beautiful pocket books, each bearing a suitable inscription to mark the occasion" to the four enginemen on arrival at King's Cross. I assume that's what's happening in the photograph. There's a photo of Shotover heading south at Darlington, though the first crew (Driver Henderson and Fireman McKenzie) would have been in charge at that moment

Driver Day's death is noted in the August 1928 issue (Vol.18, No.8 ) , page 438.

See also the November 1928 issue (Vol.18, No.11) page 579 where there's a list of the locomotive crews of that summer's Flying Scotsman service.

You can get hold of the LNER Magazine for 1927 to 1947 on DVD from the GER Society at:
http://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php? ... &Itemid=84

I hope this helps.
Last edited by 61070 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Blink Bonny
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3886
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: The Midlands
Contact:

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by Blink Bonny » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:10 pm

Ay up jday!

Have you traced you GGgrandfather through the Census returns?

If not, Mrs BB stands ready to assist..... :shock:
If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:28 pm

Blink Bonny wrote:Ay up!

I thought that was familiar and there's a good reason why.

The picture is in the Hulton Picture Library and is printed in LNER Reflections, edited by Nigel Harris and published by Silver Link publishing in 1985.

My copy was bought 2nd hand for £5.

This one's even cheaper!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780947971038 ... 971033/plp
Hi there

This is great - thank you so much. :)

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:41 pm

Blink Bonny wrote:Ay up jday!

Have you traced you GGgrandfather through the Census returns?

If not, Mrs BB stands ready to assist..... :shock:
Yes, i've made quite a comprehensive family tree on Ancestry - i've also ordered his rail service records through The National Archives - i hadn't realised how soon after the Edinbrough to Kingscross run he had died. He lost his wife the year before and suffered a perferated ulser. John Mark Day's father, Mark Day, was also an engine driver and his father before that, William Day, a railway porter. John Mark's wife's (Florence Nelson) father was also a train driver - Lewis William Nelson. My own grandfather didn't join the railways, but my father did and i grow up in Campbell Road, Eastleigh.

User avatar
Blink Bonny
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3886
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: The Midlands
Contact:

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by Blink Bonny » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:31 pm

Ay up!

No worries, John. You seem to have that side of things well taped.

If you get stuck, try the RootsChat crowd or Mrs BB. They're both pretty good at rooting out all sorts of things.

Such as I never knew that my grandma's 2nd husband, Ted Carroll, came from some of the less salubrious parts of Manchester...
If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:46 am

Blink Bonny wrote:Ay up!

No worries, John. You seem to have that side of things well taped.

If you get stuck, try the RootsChat crowd or Mrs BB. They're both pretty good at rooting out all sorts of things.

Such as I never knew that my grandma's 2nd husband, Ted Carroll, came from some of the less salubrious parts of Manchester...
My next bit of research is about John Mark Day's involvement in the exchange trials in 1925, which my grandfather also spoke about. My greatgrandfather apparently drove GWR's Pendennis as they needed a driver who new the local track. I can't find any mention of this yet.

Thanks again for everyones advice and assistance. :D

User avatar
notascoobie
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 503
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: S Yorkshire

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by notascoobie » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:05 pm

Hi John,

I have a photo in a book of the two engine crews at Waverley before setting off (p18 of "Named Trains on LNER Lines" part 1). They look a deal cleaner than when photographed at KingsX!

You might be interested in the thread below on Driver Pibworth, who drove the first down Non-Stop on it's departure from the Cross. He also participated in the Atlantic trials on the Newcastle - Edinburgh section immediately post Grouping. It's possible the 2 men knew each other.

Good luck.

Regards,

Vernon

jday
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 am

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by jday » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:47 am

jday wrote:
Blink Bonny wrote:Ay up!

No worries, John. You seem to have that side of things well taped.

If you get stuck, try the RootsChat crowd or Mrs BB. They're both pretty good at rooting out all sorts of things.

Such as I never knew that my grandma's 2nd husband, Ted Carroll, came from some of the less salubrious parts of Manchester...
My next bit of research is about John Mark Day's involvement in the exchange trials in 1925, which my grandfather also spoke about. My greatgrandfather apparently drove GWR's Pendennis as they needed a driver who new the local track. I can't find any mention of this yet.

Thanks again for everyones advice and assistance. :D
I managed to get a good copy of the photograph. I've now found mention that John Day was the Pilotman of the Pendennis Castle for driver Young in the 1925 trials.

My father also has John Day's drivers watch, which we will dig out.

madgewildfire60135
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:17 pm

Re: John Mark Day - 2580 Shotover - Flying Scotsman

Post by madgewildfire60135 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:05 pm

Some weeks ago I purchased a fabulous large glass plate negative from this inaugural run. The plate of LNER A3 Class No 2580 'Shotover' was taken by long time railway photographer of the GNR/LNER W.J.Reynolds, who's work goes back to the 1890s. The A3 is in a yard at King's Cross having just brought in the up run of the non-stop Edinburgh-King's Cross. The driver and fireman are looking out the cab although when you go in for a closer look they bare no resemblance to Day & Gray shown in the arrival shot at 'The Cross' Perhaps they were the first crew of Tom Henderson and fireman McKenzie who were changed just south of York with Day & Gray on that day. To see the glass plate scroll down half-way on my site.... link here

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page73.htm

I think I'm right in saying this plate appears in the book RCTS 'Locos of the LNER' Vol 2A and a similar photo in the book Sir Nigel Gresley 'The Engineer and his Family'

Any thoughts about the glass plate much appreciated. Was interested to learn that Driver Day had passed away only twenty days after the inaugural run. What was the cause of death?

Enjoy.

Simon
http://simonlathlane.zenfolio.com/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests