Small 4x4s

[Autocar Publicity]

I am thinking of changing my car soon for a more suitable vehicle. I could do with something that is capable of being parked on verges and going down rough tracks without worrying about grounding it or not being able to get away afterwards.

As well as something which is suitable for using for landscape and railway photography, it would be useful to have something which can accommodate assorted luggage/cargo in the back and still carry two adults in the front. I need to be able to carry boards of c 4' x 2' in the back together with assorted bits. I'm not bothered about 'toys' or sophistication, but reliability and ruggedness are key. I'd sooner be able to drive over a steep pass in mid-winter than have heated seats or electric windows. Given the type of vehicle I'm looking at, I know they are not going to be terribly comfortable on longer journeys, but so long as they don't shake the fillings out of your teeth at 60 on a straight road, I'll cope.

I have thought about Suzuki Jimneys and Grand Vitaras, looked at various reviews and the official sites, but no-one's very keen to tell me what they are like to live with... Any comments/suggestions?

[redtoon1892]

A good second hand long wheelbase Land Rover or even short wheelbase, you can even sleep in it and stand on the roof. Not as your first vehicle but as your dogsbody.
This sort of thing, I had a one for years and I only paid £1700 for it at an MOD auction, it could go anywhere, pull anything and was great for "moving stuff" and pulling a trailer. I had it 3 years and only lost £200 when I sold it on, it even had a winch on the front.
http://www.mod-sales.com/direct/vehicle ... Rover_.htm

[mr B]

Stick to a good old Landy, also if its pre 1st Jan 1973 its tax exempt ! Better still a Willy jeep.

Mr B .. Classic car owner.

[richard]

I was going to suggest a proper Landy as well although they do get a bit shaky in the 60mph range.

My first 'car' was an ex-MOD Series 3 LWB with 24v electrics. It was a few months older than me, being delivered to Ashchurch on 17th January 1973. So that was annoying when they froze the tax at 1st January 1973 but I was able to get it re-registered with the date it rolled off the production line (December 30th!).

A Series 2 or 3 is going to fit the rugged category, and the lwb (109") would be better for carrying stuff. Very affordable. But you are going to have to do a lot of repairs. I learnt how a car works on mine. The good news is there's lots of space in the engine compartment and underneath (I could just sit underneath when changing the rear prop shaft), and parts are generally cheap. The military option is generally a good one (they usually went for the tougher options when available) but avoid 24v if you can. The shielded cables are a pain and the larger parts (motor/alternator/etc) will usually cost an arm and a leg to buy new.

Ex-MOD Defenders are probably on the market in reasonable numbers these days, so this might be a more reliable but pricier option. (the Series 3 were replaced by what was eventually named 'Defender' in 1984 - coil springs - luxury!)

Richard

[coachmann]

I've had Ford saloons for as long as I can remember but I did have fun a couple of years back with a Nissan X-Trail DCi. I read up on Parkers site before choosing this 4X4 and it was all they said it was, good off road, big enough in the back to take big items, a curtain net to prevent shopping sliding all over the place, spare wheel under the boot floor and not hanging off a back door (try lifting a 15 inch wheel!). Plenty of flat areas to put drinks and food too plus two drink coolers when Air-Con is on. 39mpg from a common rail 2.2ltr diesel engine that throwns you into the back of you seat if you floor the excelerator.

As with any 4X4 we saw things over hedgerows and walls we'de not seen before. It was noisy on long motorway hauls though, which for me was the reason I went back to a petrol Mondeo and silent comfort. A relation lives in the Pennines and he bought one after being snowed in too many times this winter. Being a self-employed photographer with bags of tackle, lights and props to carry around, it made sense. Don't buy a pre '04' reg model.

[Autocar Publicity]

Thanks for the comments so far, keep them coming.

I have looked at Landrovers, quite like them but wasn't sure about the reliability of those that cost between £2 and 5k. I'll check for bullet holes if I get an ex-MOD one! It is to be a 'workhorse/dogsbody' and be the second vehicle in the house, we'll keep a saloon for longer trips. But it would be handy for trips to the NY Moors or up the Settle-Carlisle or to the Lakes or North Wales where parking isn't always easy in a car if you are attached to your exhaust and/or suspension...

Redtoon's right about standing on the roof - much better view! I'm not sure about a Willy's Jeep though, I know I said basic but I am going to insist on it having a [hard] roof...

[coachmann]

Forgot to mention the small ladder which you'll need Sunday mornings cleaning the roof!

[richard]

A proper Willys is a museum piece these days. They're also pretty small - about the size of an 80in Series I.

Diesels were mentioned above. For a Series Landy you're going to want the standard 4 cylinder petrol engine, or a Stage 1 with a V8. The Series 4 cyl diesel and 6 cyl petrol options had the reputation of being particularly anaemic. For Defenders the diesel TDis had a good reputation in my Landy days (10 years ago).


Richard

[52D]

A proper Willys is a museum piece these days. They're also pretty small - about the size of an 80in Series I.

Richard

Nice vehicle to feature in a pic of a S160, USA tank, O6, O7, or a J94 though.

[60041]

I have had many Landrovers over the years but finally gave up because I got sick of repairing them. I found them very rugged and generally long-lasting, but they all needed constant attention to keep things going. The main problems were oil leaks from the front swivel hubs (and everywhere else come to think about it), universal joints and occasionaly, half shafts. Plus rust - I got sick of plating the chassis every MOT on my last one which was only 8 years old. Also don't mention the electric fuel pump on the TD5 models!
My brother in law has had a few Suzukis; a SJ 410 which was great fun but tiny, a Jimny which was small but without the fun and a Vitara which is nice to drive but rubbish off road. They were all reliable though.

[richard]

Yes not good for an 8yr old vehicle - those problems sound more like a vehicle from the 70s!

For the Series Landies, the solution to broken half axles is to fit a military (Salisbury) axle rather than the weak civvie axle. One theory is that the civilian half axles were deliberately weak so that they acted as a 'fuse'. They'd break before other harder to fix parts broke. I know the off-road crowd think nothing of replacing half-axles.


Richard

[Malcolm]

I am thinking of changing my car soon for a more suitable vehicle. I could do with something that is capable of being parked on verges and going down rough tracks without worrying about grounding it or not being able to get away afterwards.

As well as something which is suitable for using for landscape and railway photography, it would be useful to have something which can accommodate assorted luggage/cargo in the back and still carry two adults in the front. I need to be able to carry boards of c 4' x 2' in the back together with assorted bits. I'm not bothered about 'toys' or sophistication, but reliability and ruggedness are key. I'd sooner be able to drive over a steep pass in mid-winter than have heated seats or electric windows. Given the type of vehicle I'm looking at, I know they are not going to be terribly comfortable on longer journeys, but so long as they don't shake the fillings out of your teeth at 60 on a straight road, I'll cope.

I have thought about Suzuki Jimneys and Grand Vitaras, looked at various reviews and the official sites, but no-one's very keen to tell me what they are like to live with... Any comments/suggestions?

I have had many 4WDs over the years including 2 Mitsubishi Shoguns (magic vehicles), 2 Toyota Landcruisers, and 1 Izuzu Trooper.
All have been diesels, and I can say (in my opinion) that the Toyota Landcruiser is among the best 4WD in the world. The two I had were both second hand and I never had any problems with either. They are comfortable, big inside, have a great ground clearance, and are very reliable. I can honestly say that I have never been stuck in mud, rivers, or deep snow in either. Bad news is they are a little expensive.....but well worth it.

Malcolm

[mr B]

Small thought, hows about a 2CV the Frog farmers car, seem to go anywhere, and light enough to push

Mr B .. Plas owner...No not that one..the smaller faster one !

[Autocar Publicity]

Thanks for the continuing comments, useful to hear about others' experiences.

Re 2CVs - NO,NO,NO... I've been in one... I'd sooner take a horse - the crumple zone is more substantial... [Thanks anyway]

BTB, Coachmann, I have a small ladder as part of my photographer's kit...

I am a bit wary of Landrovers as I'm not a mechanic and my idea of maintenance is to check the oil, tyre pressure and top up the screenwash... I like the sound of the Japanese vehicles, bulletproof reliability and good off-road capability/rough weather conditions. It does need to be a smaller 4x4 though, I don't fancy a larger vehicle and a lot of the time the extra capacity would be wasted space. I did wonder about a Toyota pickup initially, but most seem to have had hard lives as builders or farmers' vehicles - or being driven into trees or the Bristol Channel by J Clarkson and Co...

[Bryan]

I am on my second Isuzu Trooper in 14 years of having them.
No major problems.
They get me all over the NYMR trackside access roads in winter even this last winter when working on Br 30 replacement.
Currently 8 teak panels 2.2m long x 0.5m inside in the back heading for a coach at Pickering.
Next weekend its hauling the stock for a plant fair near York.