BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

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strang steel
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BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by strang steel »

I have an autumn 1967 register from Whitemoor Junction. As I may have mentioned before, this book is not a typical box register and doesn't include any bell codes, or few times in/out of section.

It appears to be mainly a record of locos coming on and off the shed, with times and loco numbers. There are no mentions of through services, such as the occasional cross country passenger trains; and locos which reversed in the yard and went straight back with another train are also noticeable by their absence.

Anyhow, there are a couple of pairs of Type 1s which arrive around midnight each weekday (there are no Sunday entries, was the box switched out on Sunday?) and one pair have 34G allocation whereas the other are 32B.

I don't have East Anglia WTTs for the period so I am at a loss to find out what the Ipswich service was, but my ECML WTT shows a 5J21 2050 Ashburton Grove to Whitemoor which fits the bill for Finsbury Park locos.

I know the Ashburton Grove Pullman ran to Blackbridge near Wheathampstead a couple of times a day, 7B76 and 7B82 in my book, but I had no idea a train ran to March. I am hoping that someone somewhere might have further info on this service; and may even like to hazard a guess at what the Ipswich to Whitemoor service was?
John. My spotting log website is now at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/
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strang steel
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by strang steel »

In addition to my earlier post, I have now been shown a photo (on another forum) of a pair of class 15s working an oil train past Bury St Edmunds in the 1960s; and there was a late evening oil service from Ipswich to Whitemoor apparently, which was only running partly in daylight during high summer.

This could well be the reason for the pair of 32B locos at March on a regular basis.
John. My spotting log website is now at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi Strang thnks enjoying your "spotters"log! sadly all my shed listings gone just the odd observation of something out of the ordinary for the day like D5835 the 2000hp Brush or 9401 shunting Bishopsgate sidings&allocated to 30A, lots of class members new because the Western Region put an order in to Bagnall/ Yorkshire? then didnt know what to do with them when they came on stream, Swindon having a line-up of unused class members(heads should have rolled),now the class 15's on the "Grove" pullman were from observation always 34G allocated&yes pairs, never saw a GE shedded class member in Clarence Yard or vicinity on layover ever &I viewed most days,surprised they made it from Whitemoor (did Brush Type2's cover)"Hardy" couldn't trust them to Southend, forget Clacton or further & any South Coast destinations on excursions(Via the ELR)(yes I know there's pictures) not as bad as the plumbers "nightmare" 84XX which he worried would even manage the ELR to New Cross(Gate)& return (just think of the LPTB's response to a breakdown in "that"particular tunnel, yes they got to Surfend a few times on parcels. but not very happy chappies ever on Brentwood Bank,jj
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manna
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

There wasn't many workings to or from Whitemoor to the KX area, the only one that really stands out is the 'Sand' train I believe it was a train that ran 'As Required', dropping some wagons off a Wood Green, then on to KX Goods yard.

manna
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Mickey
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by Mickey »

When I was at WGC s/box (1972-1974) as a 'box lad' a 'Whitemoor goods' I recall did run a few times from WGC Up yard to Whitemoor during the early weekday evenings around 7:30pm although it wasn't worked by a BTH (class 15) loco but a blue livered Hitchin Brush type 2 (class 31). This train was usually quite a long train I recall and made up of box vans, mineral wagons, bogie bolsters & brake van(s). Before the WGC track layout was modified and altered in September 1973 on the commissioning of multi-aspect colour light signalling and when semaphore signalling was still the order of the day the train required to do a W-shunt to exit the Up yard so it was routed from the Up yard at the north end of the station out onto the Up slow line as far as the Limit of Shunt board and then stopped and then it was set back (propel) back along the Up slow line into the Up slow line platform and then it stopped again and then it was routed from the Up slow line platform through the connection from Up fast line to Up slow line and also through the main to main crossover and then onto the Down main line towards Welwyn North.

I remember the BTH locos working double-headed in multiple on the Ashburton Grove Pullmans at WGC around the 1968-70 era and if it wasn't the BTH locos it was double-headed green or blue livered Brush type 2s working in multiple.

I don't recall any other trains running to and from Whitemoor when I was at WGC box during the 1972-1974 era?.
Last edited by Mickey on Tue May 18, 2021 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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manna
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Hi Mickey, trying to drag some of these memories back into the present, I think the Whitemoor goods ran via Hertford North, easier access to the 'Sand yard' at Wood Green.

manna
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by Mickey »

The 'Whitemoor goods' that I am referring to manna actually started from WGC Up yard and was made up of a collection of wagons already in the Up yard sidings such as box vans, mineral wagons, bogie bolster wagons & brake van(s) anyway at first I couldn't remember how the engine got to WGC but thinking about it again it may have come off one of the terminating set of inner suburban 'block enders' (non-corridor coaches) that had either come down from Kings Cross or Moorgate (over the Widen lines) and terminated at WGC during the early evening around 6:00-6:30pm and then the block ender set would have then been crossed over to the Up side and after a bit of shunting about would have finally been stabled on one of the Up Reception roads just to the south of the station with the loco being used to work the goods train to Whitemoor. I presume it was probably a Hitchin train crew including the guard that worked this train forward from WGC to Whitemoor and it was always a blue livered Brush type 2 and as I already posted it was always a fairly long train and departed WGC around 7:30pm for Whitemoor. This particular train didn't run that often during the weekday evenings although I do vaguely remember it running maybe a dozen times when I was in the box maybe during the first half of 1973 but to be honest I can't remember exactly when it ran?. This WGC to Whitemoor yard goods usually ran as a class 8 loose coupled train from what I can recall.
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by StevieG »

manna,
I can't comment on why the routing of a 'Whitemoor goods' would've been via main line or Hertford.
But why would running via Hertford make access to the 'sand yard' at Wood Green easier ?
In the old layout the sidings connected back from the north end of the No.1 Up Reception line for Hornsey CS, worked by Wood Green No.4 box, and only reachable from the Up Carriage line, for which trains had to use the Up Goods through Wood Green station. But that line could be reached from both the Up Hertford and Up Slow lines north of the station at No.2 box.
Post-1975, while the 'yard' was working, IIRC the new layout's access was a hand connection to the unsignalled Carriage line but there was also a ground frame crossover connection between the Carriage and the Up Goods.
Last edited by StevieG on Wed May 19, 2021 8:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Mickey
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Re: BTH Type 1s (class 15) from Ashburton Grove

Post by Mickey »

Stevie your hand drawn track layout of Wood Green featuring Wood Green No.1, Wood Green Up Box No.4 & Wood Green Up Box No.2 that you posted last year is EXCELLENT I was trying to find it.

That sand road(s) south of Wood Green station did have a lot of sand dumped along it I recall?.

Regards to freight traffic using the Hertford branch or loop I presume possibly once Kings Cross PSB took over the signalling in 1976 or maybe since the HST 125s took over the top link diagrams in 1979-80 after the demise of the class 55 Deltics until the present day many freight trains appear to be routed via the Hertford loop where as in B.R. days certainly until 1976 they would have been given a 'main line run' via Hatfield in GN tradition.
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