Oil trains?

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03piggs
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by 03piggs »

Hi all

Noce to know some have seen the tar train to Hertford. If I remember, I'll dig out my 1970 wtt after work that has a note on how it should be formed.

Intresting that you worked Victoria Park box Mickey. I had a friend who used to work that box, not sure what date he worked at it though. He worked in quite a few of the Stratford area boxes. His names Robert (bob) Muffett.

Stu
Mickey
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by Mickey »

03piggs wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 am Intresting that you worked Victoria Park box Mickey. I had a friend who used to work that box, not sure what date he worked at it though. He worked in quite a few of the Stratford area boxes. His names Robert (bob) Muffett.
The name doesn't ring a bell Stu he may well have been at the box before my time. I was at Victoria Park from January 1980 until October 1981.

Talking about freight traffic a funny working I remember when I was at Victoria Park apart from the previously mention 'Poplar goods' in several of my other posts on the forum was the Fawley tanks that came off the southern region during the early hours and across the North London line and would then run/round at Victoria Park on the 'Poplar branch' between Victoria Park box and the Old Ford ground frame and was worked by a class 33 electro/diesel. This particular train was quite an irregular working and would only occasionally run although thinking about it now 40 years later it may well have suppose to have run/round between Western Junction box and the Eastern Junction ground frame at Dalston during 1980-81 but came down to Victoria Park to run/round instead?.
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by Mickey »

In actual fact now I remember it a picture of a oil train is pictured travelling along the Down goods line between WGC and Digswell in the Ian Alan book Diesels Out Of Kings Cross back in the early 1970s I shall check it out later today.
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by StevieG »

03piggs wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 am " .... Intresting that you worked Victoria Park box Mickey. I had a friend who used to work that box, not sure what date he worked at it though. He worked in quite a few of the Stratford area boxes. His names Robert (bob) Muffett.

Stu"
03piggs,
I met Bob when he was signalman in Liv. Street's 1949 signal box during its last week of operation in March 1989. We then became colleagues for the subsequent six years in the new IECC that replaced it (and Bethnal Green box) initially, and we got on very well. He went on to eventually become asenior signalling operations expert in Network Rail's Ergonomics department, retiring something like ten years ago.
The Muffetts (at the very least, Bob's father, and two of his brothers, plus at least one other relative) were quite a 'railway' family on 'the GE', 03piggs.
Sadly Bob passed away from multiple health issues in April 2020.
BZOH

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03piggs
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by 03piggs »

StevieG wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:58 am
03piggs wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 am " .... Intresting that you worked Victoria Park box Mickey. I had a friend who used to work that box, not sure what date he worked at it though. He worked in quite a few of the Stratford area boxes. His names Robert (bob) Muffett.

Stu"
03piggs,
I met Bob when he was signalman in Liv. Street's 1949 signal box during its last week of operation in March 1989. We then became colleagues for the subsequent six years in the new IECC that replaced it (and Bethnal Green box) initially, and we got on very well. He went on to eventually become asenior signalling operations expert in Network Rail's Ergonomics department, retiring something like ten years ago.
The Muffetts (at the very least, Bob's father, and two of his brothers, plus at least one other relative) were quite a 'railway' family on 'the GE', 03piggs.
Sadly Bob passed away from multiple health issues in April 2020.
Hi Steve.

Nice to meet someone on here who knew him.

Yes he was great. I knew about his death, as I'm indirectly related to him (his granddaughter is my sister-in-law) yes the Muffetts where quite a GE clan. I do remember him saying a brother of his worked Waltham Cross box at one point.

Reminds me to try and make a list of what boxes he worked at...

Stu
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by Mickey »

Mickey wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:56 am In actual fact now I remember it a picture of a oil train is pictured travelling along the Down goods line between WGC and Digswell in the Ian Alan book Diesels Out Of Kings Cross back in the early 1970s I shall check it out later today.
I checked it guys and the above oil train is or was a Royston oil train hauled by a B.R. green livered class 37 in February 1973.
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Re: Oil trains/mickey query

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi Mickey thanks for the reply on my query of your working life,so really you went full circle &back to signalling after the footplate, you would have good insight from both angles,dont think many would have done both traction&signalling,but their must have been major shedding of staff countrywide of all signalling grades,may I ask where your base would be now after so much centralisation of the job?.jj
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Oil trains/KX loco?

Post by Mickey »

The loco?. As a 17-18 year old secondman at 'the cross' back in 1974-75 it was alright although electrification was 'just around the corner' but I had left Kings Cross by the autumn of 1975.

I liked riding on the class 31s they were my favourite diesel locos. The 47s were ok up to a point along with the small number of class 46s on the Cambridge workings although the 31s worked most of those trains. I never got on the Deltics much other than going to and from Passenger loco within Kings Cross station on a few occasions and a very small number of main line runs when I was in no.2 gang the Leeds/York link.
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Re: Oil trains/KX loco?

Post by Mickey »

Mickey wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:18 am The loco?. As a 17-18 year old secondman at 'the cross' back in 1974-75 it was alright although electrification was 'just around the corner' but I had left Kings Cross by the autumn of 1975.
From about April to December 1979 I was a secondman at Stratford in east London and that was like 'treading water' and apart from a few inter regional freight workings across to south London either Clapham Junction or Bricklayers Arms it wasn't all that much to be honest after Kings Cross a few years earlier.
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thesignalman
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by thesignalman »

WTTReprinter wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:42 pm The class 73s worked to Hertford on SR driver's route learning specials, propelling the inspector's coach to Hertford.
I don't recall 73s on anything else
73118 & TDM395280BR road learning at Hertford East:
73118~NC6384.jpg
N L Cadge, 10/8/74

John
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by WTTReprinter »

Hi John.
That's the move I remember. 1974 would be when I was a teenaged spotter!
By the time I had passed out for Hertford E as a signalman Printars had closed and the sidings were lifted shortly afterwards.
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by Mickey »

HERTFORD EAST

Around 1970 on a visit to the station a lone full size semaphore stop signal was seen carried on a small straight white wooden post coming out of the sidings roads from the back of the station the same side as the s/box although on a later visit to the station that semaphore signal had gone sometime during the 1970s.

In 1974 the s/box appeared on the Eastern region vacancy list and I actually applied for the position as a signalman at the box but received a letter saying it wasn't in my line of promotion. I was a secondman at Kings Cross at the time.

I recall seeing a southern region class 33 hauling what I thought was a train of cement wagons through Ware coming from Hertford East sometime during the early/mid 1970s but I can't remember the actual year?.

An interesting former GER terminal station along with it's signal box and track layout even during the B.R. era of the 1970s and possibly an interesting place to model for railway modellers.
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by WTTReprinter »

Hi Mickey
That semaphore was the signal that took you off the single line from Welwyn. A little stub of the single line was left as a shunt spur to reach the siding for Printars.
I saw the 33s working tanks as well. They came from Fawley and were loaded with oil for Printars who made road surface coatings, etc.
As I remember, the Fawley tanks arrived in the early morning, when the passenger service wasn't running, as it needed the platform and centre road to run round.
There are some cracking 1950's views around Hertford East and Printars in the film 'School for Scoundrels.'
John has a diagram of Hertford E on his website that shows the GN Branch. By the 70's all that was left was a train length behind 45 signal for shunting.
https://signalbox.org/~SBdiagram.php?id=%20478
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Re:KX transition thwarted.

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi all it may or may not be common knowledge that plans were mooted,to replace KX with St.Pancras way back in the early'60's,utilising I assume the under existing platform areas @ St.Pancras no cool room for the Burton Beers!,commuters requiring Moorgate would travel on the existing Widened Lines or via Drayton Park, not finalised @ the time,the uproar that came from all railway grades along with all staff affected or otherwise, motormen/loaders/contractors & Unions can be imagined with Middle&Upper management all unanimous on the said subject for once, a resounding NO!,was this the beginning of Clarence Yard (FP) with this in mind?,food for thought.jj
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Re: Oil trains?

Post by Mickey »

WTTReprinter wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:33 am Hi Mickey
That semaphore was the signal that took you off the single line from Welwyn. A little stub of the single line was left as a shunt spur to reach the siding for Printars.
I saw the 33s working tanks as well. They came from Fawley and were loaded with oil for Printars who made road surface coatings, etc.
As I remember, the Fawley tanks arrived in the early morning, when the passenger service wasn't running, as it needed the platform and centre road to run round.
There are some cracking 1950's views around Hertford East and Printars in the film 'School for Scoundrels.'
John has a diagram of Hertford E on his website that shows the GN Branch. By the 70's all that was left was a train length behind 45 signal for shunting.
Hiya WTT yeah I thought that full size semaphore stop signal at Hertford East probably came off the single line from Hertford North and the Welwyn & Hatfield branch but thanks for the confirmation.

Yeah those tanks were a Hertford East to Fawley working. I thought they were cement tanks but I was wrong they were short wheel base oil tanks this was back in the 1970s.

The terminus crops up in a 1950s b&w film in the disguise as YEOVIL station on the southern?.

One of John's colour photographs crops up of Hertford East s/box on the 433shop.co.uk website showing most of the track diagram and block shelf and lever handles dated 1980.

I always liked Hertford East station & s/box along with Ware station & s/box and level crossing. I have relatives living in Ware dating back to around 1964 and back in the late 1960s when I was a youngster we would travel from WGC in the car a journey of about 10 miles to visit them and I would ALWAYS HOPE we would be stopped at Ware level crossing so I could see into Ware s/box from the standing car at the level crossing barriers especially at night because the signal indications on the block shelf would be seen plus the track diagram and some levers as well.
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