GN London s/boxes c1969

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Mickey
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GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

On the main line
1. Kings Cross 1932 box
2. Goods And Mineral Junction
3. Holloway South Down (Down lines only)
4. Holloway South Up (Up lines only) I visited the box in 1972
5. Holloway North Down (Down lines only) I visited the box twice in 1971 & 1974
6. Holloway North Up (Up lines only)

On the Canonbury lines
7. Finsbury Park no.1
8. Ashburton Grove I visited the box in 1971
9. Finsbury Park no.2 (Mainly the Down lines but signalled train onto the Up Canonbury Goods line)

On the main line
10. Finsbury Park no.3 (Down lines only) I visited the box in 1972
11. Finsbury Park no.4 (Up lines only) I visited the box in 1971
12. Finsbury Park no.5 (Down lines only) I visited the box in either 1971 or 1972?
13, Finsbury Park no.6 (Up lines only) I visited the box either in 1971 or 1972?

On the Edgware branch
14. Finsbury Park no.7 I visited the box soon after closure around late 1970

On the main line
15. Harringay (passenger) I visited the box in early 1973
16. Harringay Up Goods (Mainly the Up lines but could signal trains from Harringay Up Goods across the Harringay flyover in the Down direction across the the Harringay flyover to Ferme Park North Down)
17. Ferme Park South Down (Down lines only) I visited the box after closure in 1971
18. Ferme Park North Down (Mainly the Down lines but could signal trains from Ferme Park North Down across the Harringay flyover in the Up direction across to Harringay Up Goods)
19. Hornsey no.1 (Down lines only) visited the box in 1971
20. Hornsey no.2 (Up lines only)
21. Hornsey Up Goods (Up Goods no.1 & no.2 lines and Hornsey carriage sidings)
22. Wood Green no.1 (Down lines only) I visited the box either in 1971 or 1972?. The large semaphore signals gantry at Wood Green no.1 was still in operation at the time of my visit
23. Wood Green Up Box no.4 (Up lines only)
24. Wood Green Up Box no.2 (Up lines only)

On the Hertford Loop
25. Bounds Green
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Mickey
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

A number of box closing dates from memory although these box closing dates can be found elsewhere on line.

1967
1. Copenhagen Junction
2. Ferme Park South Up (This box may have closed in 1966 but I recall seeing it standing redundant circa June/July 1967)

1968
1. Belle Isle Up
2. Stevenage South

1969
1. Hatfield no.3
2. Ferme Park South Down

1970
1. Holloway North Up
2. Finsbury Park no.7
3. Oakleigh Park
4. New Barnet South Box

1971
Kings Cross 1932 box

1972
1. Marshmoor

1973
1. Harringay (passenger)
2. Hornsey no.2
3. New Southgate
4. Cemetery
5. Hatfield no.1
6. Welwyn North
7.Woolmer Green
8. Knebworth

1974
1. Finsbury Park no.1
2. Ashburton Grove
3. Finsbury Park no.3
4. Finsbury Park no.4
5. Finsbury Park no.5
6. Hornsey no.1

1975
1. Goods And Mineral Junction
2. Holloway South Up (I think?)
3. Finsbury Park no.6
4. Ferme Park North Down
5. Potters Bar
6. Hatfield no.2
7. Hitchin Yard (I think?)
8. Hitchin South (I think?)

1976
1. Holloway South Down
2. Holloway North Down
3. New Barnet North Box
4. Welwyn Garden City

I can't exactly remember when the following boxes closed

1. Finsbury Park no.2 maybe in 1975?
2. Harringay Up Goods maybe in 1975?
3. Harringay Up Goods either in 1975 or 1976?
4. Wood Green no.1 either in 1974 or 1975?
5. Wood Green Up Box no.4 maybe in 1975?.
6. Wood Green Up Box no.2 maybe in 1974?
7. Stevenage North maybe in 1974?
8. Langley (Junction) maybe in 1975?
9. Cambridge Junction maybe 1976?
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

A hour spent one weekday afternoon visiting Finsbury Park no.4 back in 1971.

The box had a Dutton lever frame but I forget how many levers it held but at a rough guess I would say it had around 45-50 levers maybe?. Also the block instruments may well have been all GNR wooden instruments on the block shelf?.

From vague memory of visiting the box just over 50 years ago the inside of the box in broad daylight was still rather dim I recall and covered in shadows. From memory the B.R. lino floor was polished up with bees wax like many box floors were back then but I believe I recall seeing an old 'large pattern carpet' that was covering the floor and placed in front of a large section of the Dutton lever frame(?) also I recall the single needle telegraph instruments were 'tinkling out' Morse code messages quite regularly on either the Hitchin-Kings Cross telegraph circuit and also on the 'Finsbury Park all boxes telegraph circuit' as well which in regards to the 'Finsbury Park telegraph circuit' I believe it was the normal practice for Finsbury Park no.6 (situated just off the north end of the Up lines platforms) to 'send on' to Finsbury Park no.4 either on the Up slow or Up Goods lines (through the platforms roads) and say what was coming from no.6 with regards to any ECS trains (Empty Coaching Stock) bound for either Kings Cross or East Goods sidings or heading towards the Finsbury Park no.1 direction on the Up Canonbury line and also for any light engines heading passed no.4 and either heading towards Kings Cross, the Goods yard, East Goods sidings or Clarence yard (Finsbury Park diesel depot) via Finsbury Park no.1 on the Up Canonbury line as well which negated the signalman in Finsbury Park no.6 having to keep 'going on the box phone circuit' and speaking to the bloke in Finsbury Park no.4 (the GNR way of working).
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

I visited Harringay (passenger) twice in quick succession during February 1973 about 6-7 months before the box was finally closed. The box I believe was built and opened around 1906 and by the 1960s and early 1970s was unusual in the London area between Kings Cross and Wood Green on the main line in so far as apart from Kings Cross 1932 box and it's replacement the 1971 power box the box (Harringay) worked both the Up & Down running lines if you were to disregard either Goods And Mineral Junction on the Up Down Goods lines and both Finsbury Park no.1 on the Up & Down Canonbury lines and Finsbury Park no.7 on the Up & Down Edgware branch which by late 1970 had closed.

A unusual feature of this box was 10 sets of wooden housed single stroke block bells for the five running lines that the box worked which were the Down slow no.2, Down slow no.1, Down fast, Up fast & Up slow lines were all hung high up on the back wall of the box with all the 'ringing hammers' having long metal chains attached to them individually this was so the signalman could visually identify which bell had rang which made the attached chain 'waggle around' for several seconds.

A 'funny feature' of this box was the Up slow line signal levers I recall. A old long standing trick no doubt dating back several decades was if the signalman after 'pulling off' his signals along the Up slow line which included the Up slow line home signal on a straight post on the approach to Harringay West station and then the Up slow line second home signal on a overhanging lattice post just off the Up slow line platform nearly opposite the box and the Up slow line starter on a tall signal gantry south of Harringay West station heading towards Finsbury Park and then both the inner distant signal and then the outer distant signal both signals of which were mounted underneath Hornsey no.2 stop signals the 'trick was' if the signalman 'closed' the Up slow line inner distant signal lever catch and then closed the Up slow line home signal lever catch and finally he closed the Up slow line second home signal lever catch on those individual levers when a train approached along the Up slow line and was passing the box having already passed the Up slow line second home signal the signalman would put back the Up slow line outer distant signal lever and then if by magic first the Up slow line inner distant signal lever would return back in the lever frame followed by the Up slow line home signal lever and then finally followed by the Up slow line second home signal lever thus negating the signalman of individually put those signal levers back in the lever frame.

A funny episode that happened when I visited the box was when I mentioned to the signalman who by the way was a relief signalman who was working the box that I had never seen a train being 'turned in' off the Down fast line and onto the Down slow no.1 line at Harringay (this connection was the only set of points that this box had by 1969/70 until it's closure) so the signalman replied "I can remedy that" and shortly afterwards on receiving a 3-1 bell from Finsbury Park no.5 on the Down fast line for a Rolls Royce unit I recall which was probably working a Kings Cross to Hitchin semi-fast (on the GN known as a Parly) the signalman 'set the road up' without talking with the control first from the Down fast to Down slow no.1 line and after receiving 'on line' (2 bells) from Finsbury Park no.5 waited for the train concerned to approach the bracket signals that were near the box on the Down lines and then when the train had slowed down enough he 'pulled off' the signal from the Down fast to Down slow no.1 line after which the train continued through the connection and along the Down slow no.1 line towards Hornsey no.1 and was no doubt 'turned out' again onto the Down fast line at New Barnet I would surmise?. Things like that happened under B.R. but 20 odd years further on from the early 1970s under Railtrack and later still Network Rail something like what that signalman had done would have caused trouble for a signalman.
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

I visited Knebworth box in the late summer/autumn of 1972. The box was around 25 miles north of Kings Cross and this visit came about after a relief signalman who I knew at the time said to me that I could visit him at the box.

Knebworth box and it's layout by about 1970 had been heavily rationalised so by the time of my visit in 1972 it was basically just four straight running lines with only a mechanically worked 'turn out' off the south end of the Up slow line platform leading from the Up slow to Up fast line. Knebworth box was located between the Up fast and Up slow lines just off the north end of the Up platforms and held quite a long lever frame of a rough guess of about 60 levers(?) reflecting it's once more complex layout of times past although by 1970 only around 14 or 15 levers were still in regular use I would say with the remainder of the levers being painted white as spare levers. All the existing semaphore signals were to be found on the Up slow line coming from Langley (Junction) box which included the Up slow line distant signal mounted on a straight concrete post, the Up slow line home signal mounted on a straight tubular post on the approach to the box and the Up slow line to Up Goods line stop signal and also the Up slow line to Up fast line stop signal mounted on the same tall wooden bracket post situated just off the Up slow line platform south of the station and the Up Goods line starting signal mounted on a tall lattice post south of the station towards Woolmer Green. On the Down lines a 'motorised' semaphore distant signal was on the Down slow line mounted on a T-bracket lattice post coming from Woolmer Green and the Down fast line colour light distant signal that was combined with Woolmer Green's Down fast line colour light starting signal was further back towards Woolmer Green. Also on the Down lines two independent banner repeater signals one for the Down fast line and the other for the Down slow line colour light home signals that were both located off the north end of the Down platforms (opposite the box) were located on the southern approach to the station on a curve. The Up fast line from Langley (Junction) to Woolmer Green were all colour light signals which in order of approaching them were a x2 aspect colour light distant signal south of Langley (Junction) box then a x4 aspect colour light home signal on the approach to Knebworth box that also acted as Woolmer Green's Up fast line outer distant signal and finally a x3 aspect colour light starting signal mounted on a cantilever post south of Knebworth station (close to the Up Goods line starting signal) that also acted as Woolmer Green's Up fast line inner distant signal as well. The Up Goods line south of the station 'turn out' from Knebworth to Woolmer Green was worked under Permissive block but all other lines were worked under Absolute block between Woolmer Green to the south and Langley (Junction) to the north.

The interior of Knebworth box was quite large but gloomy even in broad daylight and from memory I believe the box was still lit by gas lighting with a gas lamp hung over the train register desk/book along with three or four other gas lamps hanging in a row from the box roof but I doubt very much if those lamps hanging from the roof would have been lit as the normal practice in those days at most signal boxes all over the railways was to just have an illuminated light over the train register desk/book during the hours of darkness with the rest of the box usually left in darkness.

At the time of my visit I was a telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City box so I was allowed by the signalman to do a bit of work 'on the frame' and pull off for several approaching trains and also put the levers back behind several passing trains in either directions and also work the block instruments as well.

All in all Knebworth box was a 'nice little job' signalling wise and the box was quite a nice GNR s/box as well which finally closed in October 1973 when the railway through Knebworth station became part of the temporary Langley box NX panel for a year or two before finally being transferred into the Kings Cross power box area for the next 46 years.
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

Finsbury Park no.5 and Finsbury Park no.6 visits.

I visited both Finsbury Park no.5 and Finsbury Park no.6 during the same afternoon back in the summer of 1972 during a weekday afternoon courtesy of a London relief signalman who I knew at that time. The relief signalman who I knew was working Finsbury Park no.5 that afternoon and I was with him in the box for maybe an hour or slightly longer than an hour?. Finsbury Park no.5 signalled all trains on the Down lines through Finsbury Park and was located a couple of hundred yards off the north end of Finsbury Park station and worked with Finsbury Park no.3 at the south end of Finsbury Park station and northwards Finsbury Park no.5 worked with either Harringay (passenger) on the Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines and with Ferme Park South Down on the Down Goods line (later on after December 1969 after Ferme Park South Down had been abolished with Ferme Park North Down). Finsbury Park no.5 box was located between the Down fast line and the Down slow no.1 line (The Down slow no.1 & no.2 lines along with the adjoining Down Canonbury line and Down Goods line were all at a higher level when passing the box on a train say travelling along the Down slow no.1 line before all these running lines fell downwards to be level with the Down fast line roughly where the old Edgware branch crossed ALL running lines north of Finsbury Park). The box I believe was built around 1888 and was a bit taller than the nearby Finsbury Park no.6 that stood diagonally opposite to Finsbury Park no.5 so the signalman in no.5 could look down towards Finsbury Park no.6 which was built nearer to the Up line platforms at Finsbury Park station. Finsbury Park no.5 had a lever frame of around 50-55 levers at a guess(?) and had possibly all GNR block instruments(?) and also maybe 2 or 3 single needle telegraph instruments as well one of which was mounted on the block shelf amongst the other block instruments for the 'Finsbury Park telegraph circuit'. Anyway I can't remember now to much about my visit except that it was a sunny afternoon and at one point the signalman asked me to 'put the boards back' behind a Down local train formed of a x2 car Cravens unit that was passing the box and running along the Down slow no.1 line which was probably on either a Kings Cross to Welwyn Garden City or a Kings Cross to Hertford North working. Sometime towards 5:00 pm the signalman said to me that I should go across to Finsbury Park no.6 and have a look around which I did after the signalman had rang the bloke up in no.6 and told him that I was coming across to visit the box and have a look around anyway from vague memory the bloke in no.6 didn't seem to mind me turning up in the box and staying for awhile with him and his telegraph lad who as it turned out appeared to be doing all the work on the lever frame and block shelf at the time while the signalman was sat in the chair chatting on the circuit phone ha ha ha...

Finsbury Park no.6 signalled all trains on the Up lines only and was located just off the north end of Finsbury Park station between the Up fast and Up slow lines. As well as signalling the Up fast and Up slow lines from Harringay (passenger box) southwards towards Finsbury Park no.4 at the south end of Finsbury Park station the box also signalled trains on the Up Goods no.1 & no.2 lines from Harringay Up Goods and also controlled the entrance and exit to Finsbury Park Up carriage sidings (known locally as GB sidings). I believe the box was built around 1891(?) and possibly had a lever frame of around 50 levers at a guess(?) and also possibly had a mixture of GNR and Thompson LNER block instruments(?) on the block shelf along with possibly x3 single needle telegraph instruments one of which was also mounted on the block shelf with the other block instruments for the 'Finsbury Park telegraph circuit'. I thought Finsbury Park no.6 was quite an interesting box to work plus quite a bit of telegraph work was received from either or both Hatfield no.1 and Hitchin South boxes with regards to (late) running Up expresses approaching the London area hence the box having a telegraph lad. After spending maybe 45-50 minutes in Finsbury Park no.6 the time was getting on towards 6:00 pm so it was subtlety intimated to me by the signalman that I better 'make a move' as the signalman's relief would be turning up in the box shortly thereafter so I thanked the signalman and said my goodbyes and left the box and caught the train back home to WGC.
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by StevieG »

Pretty good on those frame sizes Mickey : -

No. of Levers
KR (Knebworth)....73
GY (Fins. Park 5)...55
GB (Fins. Park 6)...55
BZOH

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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

StevieG wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:59 pm Pretty good on those frame sizes Mickey : -

No. of Levers
KR (Knebworth)....73
GY (Fins. Park 5)...55
GB (Fins. Park 6)...55
Thanks Stevie for clarifying the amount of levers held in those box lever frames.

"Back in the very early 1970s (1970-1973) when I was 'active' around the railway as a railway enthusiast and visiting many railway locations during weekends that is when I visited many signal boxes on the GN main line between Holloway South Up and Stevenage North box and also on the North London line both Broad Street no.2 (1970) & Dalston Junction (1970) and on the West London line at Kensington South Main (1970) and also on the Midland main line at St Albans South box (1970) & Harlington (1971) and I should have really have been a bit more meticulous in recording details during these box visits but at the time of my visits I was just to 'excited' to be actually inside these individual signal boxes that I was visiting so I neglected to record any details by writing them down during the visits and I didn't even have a camera with me to take photographs except for visually 'taking things in' and keeping them in my memory so 50 plus years on in 2022 my sometimes 'lack of accurate detail' shows up in some of my posts unfortunately."

A number of the box visits occurred 'on the spur of the moment' when a signalman would usually either open the box door or window and 'call me up' into the box such as what happened at Broad Street No.2 in May 1970 on the North London line, Kensington South Main in August 1970 on the West London line, Woolmer Green in August 1970 on the GN main line, St Albans South in October 1970 on the Midland main line although two subsequent visits to the box were pre-arranged in late October & early November 1970, Harlington on the Midland main line (north of Flitwick in Bedfordshire) in April 1971 and Hornsey No.1 in the summer of 1971 in the London area. Also other box visits occurred on the GN in the London area due to me knowing a relief signalman back then and visiting him in the following boxes such as Holloway North Down in 1971 or 72(?) Finsbury Park No.4 & No.5 in 1972 and Wood Green No.1 also in 1972. Ashburton Grove box south of Finsbury Park was visited by myself and a railway friend in the summer of 1971 when we both 'just showed up at the box' unannounced and walked in on the signalman!. The box at Dalston Junction on the North London line was visited in June 1970 (a month after I had visited Broad Street No.2) when I showed up at Dalston Junction station (the old station as was although it has been totally re-built these days and is part of the East London line between New Cross and Highbury & Islington stations) and a B.R. railman approached me on the station platform and asked me if 'I wanted to visit the signal box' after which he took me up into the box where I stayed for maybe an hour. Other box visits occurred at boxes such as Finsbury Park No.3 in 1972 because I knew the telegraph lad at the box at the time and when I was working on the railway myself as a telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City box between 1972-74 I visited Welwyn North in 1972, Knebworth in 1972 & Stevenage North box in 1972 also New Southgate box was visited possibly in late 1972 or at the start of 1973 just weeks before the box along with Cemetery box were both closed and abolished but I can't remember the actual date of my visit(?) also I visited Harringay (passenger) box in February 1973 about 6 months before it was closed and abolished as well and before I nearly forget I also visited Holloway South Up due to myself again knowing a telegraph lad who was at that box at the time with the visit occurring in the summer of 1972.
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

A visit to Wood Green No.1 box

Again all from memory of 50 years ago...

I visited Wood Green No.1 box one weekday afternoon in the summer of 1972 although I have a feeling in the back of my mind that this visit may have taken place a year earlier in the summer of 1971(?) and the same relief signalman who allowed me to visit him at Hornsey No.1, Holloway North Down and Finsbury Park No.4 & No.5 was the same bloke.

Wood Green No.1 was a fair size box that was located to the south of Wood Green station on the Down side of the running lines through Wood Green and standing beside the Down Goods line. The box had a pronounced 'bow or dip' around the middle area of the box which I presume was due to the heavy weight of the lever frame?. By the late 1960s and into the early 1970s the box signalled all trains travelling on the Down lines from Hornsey No.1 box a mile further south through Wood Green station and either heading northwards along the fast and slow lines towards New Southgate box or travelling onto the Down Enfield line towards Hertford North and worked with Bounds Green box after Wood Green No.3 box that was located at the north end of Wood Green station had closed and was abolished during the early 1960s. When Wood Green No.3 closed and was abolished Wood Green No.1 took over control of the north end of Wood Green station (on the Down lines) via two sets of electrically operated motorised points that lead either from the Down slow no.2 line onto the Down Enfield line (the straight route) towards Bounds Green box or from the Down slow no.2 line onto the Down slow line heading towards New Southgate box along the Down slow line or from the Down slow no.1 line onto the Down Enfield line (at the north end of the station) towards Bounds Green box. Wood Green No.1 was also notable for having a tall and large signal gantry situated just to the south of the box carrying all the Down line home signals which from memory carried seven (7) full-size stop signal arms and one red miniature arm at the extreme left-hand end of the gantry with all these signal arms being carried on separate dolls (signal posts) on the gantry. Previously the individual dolls on the gantry also carried Wood Green No.3s Down line distant signals but that was until the early 1960s when Wood Green No.3 box was closed and abolished.

The box was like most boxes in the GN London area with a brick bottom half and was accessed via a long path that ran from the dead end dock at the south end of Wood Green station and lead to the box that brought you to the bottom of a short wooden staircase at the rear of the box at the top of which was a small open landing or veranda with a small covered roof and the wooden and glassed door leading into the rear of the box. The rear of the box backed up against the north end of Wood Green reservoir (which could be seen by passing trains) and gave the rear area of the box I would presume a tranquil atmosphere especially on a long summer evening also the old Wood Green 'pan handle' horse racing track was not to far away and could been seen from the box as well.

From memory the interior of the box had quite a long lever frame that faced the running lines outside and I believe the block shelf contained all GNR block instruments(?) but a notable feature that I remember was the lever frame which appeared to contain a large group of (white) spare levers on the left-hand end of the frame as you walked into the box although I can't remember the exact number of spare levers that it contained but it possibly ran into double-figures maybe 20 plus spare levers before the 'working levers' started?.

I may have stayed in the box with the signalman for around an hour before leaving but I took no notes or details or photographs so this is all from memory of 50 years ago. Maybe about a year before Wood Green No.1 was closed (in 1975?) and abolished the tall signal gantry to the south of Wood Green and controlled by Wood Green No.1 was abolished and was replaced by three individual multi-aspect colour light signals on the Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines that were all 'worked off a individual lever' in the lever frame from the box.
Last edited by Mickey on Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

Additional information regarding Wood Green No.1 s/box taken from a old B.R. S&T diagram that I have had in my possession since about 1970-71 that was amongst a group of old S&T diagrams originating from a drawing office at Kings Cross station that were all dumped in a rubbish bin at the station?.

My S&T diagram is dated January 10th 1961 and is of the repositioning work with regards to the double-banner repeater signals in the Down slow line just south of Wood Green station in the Down slow no.1 line for Wood Green No.3s Down slow line home/junction signals at the north end of the Down slow no.1 line which according to the S&T diagram these double-banner repeater signals were to be repositioned 40 yards further to the south of the station.

The S&T diagram also shows eight (8) full-size stop signals carried on the tall Wood Green No.1 signal gantry and below all eight stop signals were Wood Green No.3s distant signals below each stop signal arm. As previously posted by the late 1960s and into the early 1970s not only had all the distant signals had been removed but on the extreme left-hand side of the gantry a full size stop signal arm had been replaced by a lone red miniature arm also worked by Wood Green No.1.

The S&T diagram also shows the total number of levers in the Wood Green No.1 lever frame as of January 10th 1961 which according to the diagram was a total of 73 levers. Levers no.1 to no.27 were white 'spares' along with nos. 33 34 35 42 43 47-52 68-72
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by StevieG »

Mickey wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:53 pm " .... The S&T diagram also shows the total number of levers in the Wood Green No.1 lever frame as of January 10th 1961 which according to the diagram was a total of 73 levers. .... "
Could your plan's "73" actually be 75 Mickey, because that's how many levers there were in the frame, with 73-75 being the connection of Waterworks Carriage Sidings with the Down Goods: A little strangely, 73 was the points, with 74 and 75 the dollies to go in and out respectively.
BZOH

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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

StevieG wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:12 pm
Mickey wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:53 pm " .... The S&T diagram also shows the total number of levers in the Wood Green No.1 lever frame as of January 10th 1961 which according to the diagram was a total of 73 levers. .... "
Could your plan's "73" actually be 75 Mickey, because that's how many levers there were in the frame, with 73-75 being the connection of Waterworks Carriage Sidings with the Down Goods: A little strangely, 73 was the points, with 74 and 75 the dollies to go in and out respectively.
I had another look again at this S&T plan or diagram and yes it does show Wood Green No1 as having a total of 75 levers Stevie as you said. This S&T was originally printed on some sort of 'toughened grease proof paper' and is rather small being 15 inches long and 9 inches wide and the letter printing isn't to clear being printed on the grease proof paper and the number 75 can easily be mistaken for 73 in my opinion?.

The actual S&T plan is headed WOOD GREEN No1 and sub headed underneath "per-way renewals 1961 - peg no. 241 T C in lieu of bars"

Firstly the extreme right-hand end of the 75 levers reads as follows-

no.68 spare
no.69 spare
no.70 spare
no.71 spsre
no.72 spare
no.73 points Down siding to Down Goods line
no.74 Disc signal Down Goods line to Down siding
no.75 Disc signal Down siding to Down Goods line

Note on this S&T plan this 'Down siding road' ISN'T named as such as a 'Down siding' it isn't named at all but from a faded memory I think their may have been a single siding road next to the Wood Green reservoir?.

At the bottom of this S&T plan their is a number of technical alterations that are shown but the main alterations are as follows-

Lever nos. 33 & 43 (could be mistaken for 48?) become spares

Additional indications - TCs N. P. O.
no.31/32 locked/free indicator to be dispensed with.

By looking at the S&T plan two new track circuits were to be installed in the Down slow no.1 line. The first TC'O' from just beyond no.38 Down slow no.1 line home signal (carried on the tall gantry just to the south of the box) to a midway point just beyond no.40 points from the Down slow no.1 line to the Down slow no.2 line and then TC'F' the next track circuit in line leading on from TC'O' with TC'F' going through no.31 points the Down fast to Down slow no.1 line 'turn in' and then to the next track circuit in line which is the existing TC'D' that appeared to commence at the tail end of no.31 trailing points in the Down slow no.1 line and continuing on through the Down slow no.1 platform line towards Wood Green No.3 box at the north end of the station.

As previously posted the Down slow no.1 line double-banner repeater signals were also to be repositioned 40 yards further to the south of the station as well at the same time.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
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StevieG
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Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by StevieG »

Mickey wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:53 pm " .... The actual S&T plan is headed WOOD GREEN No1 and sub headed underneath "per-way renewals 1961 - peg no. 241 T C in lieu of bars" ...."

" .... the main alterations are as follows-
Lever nos. 33 & 43 (could be mistaken for 48?) become spares
Additional indications - TCs N. P. O.
no.31/32 locked/free indicator to be dispensed with.
By looking at the S&T plan two new track circuits were to be installed in the Down slow no.1 line. The first TC'O' from just beyond no.38 Down slow no.1 line home signal (carried on the tall gantry just to the south of the box) to a midway point just beyond no.40 points from the Down slow no.1 line to the Down slow no.2 line and then TC'F' the next track circuit in line leading on from TC'O' with TC'F' going through no.31 points the Down fast to Down slow no.1 line 'turn in' and then to the next track circuit in line which is the existing TC'D' that appeared to commence at the tail end of no.31 trailing points in the Down slow no.1 line and continuing on through the Down slow no.1 platform line towards Wood Green No.3 box at the north end of the station. .... "
That all sounds very interesting Mickey. I've never seen any sort of diagram of WG1 without all or most of the later TCs.
Would be interesting to see sometime.
BZOH

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Mickey
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 950
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

StevieG wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:06 pm
Mickey wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:53 pm " .... The actual S&T plan is headed WOOD GREEN No1 and sub headed underneath "per-way renewals 1961 - peg no. 241 T C in lieu of bars" ...."

" .... the main alterations are as follows-
Lever nos. 33 & 43 (could be mistaken for 48?) become spares
Additional indications - TCs N. P. O.
no.31/32 locked/free indicator to be dispensed with.
By looking at the S&T plan two new track circuits were to be installed in the Down slow no.1 line. The first TC'O' from just beyond no.38 Down slow no.1 line home signal (carried on the tall gantry just to the south of the box) to a midway point just beyond no.40 points from the Down slow no.1 line to the Down slow no.2 line and then TC'F' the next track circuit in line leading on from TC'O' with TC'F' going through no.31 points the Down fast to Down slow no.1 line 'turn in' and then to the next track circuit in line which is the existing TC'D' that appeared to commence at the tail end of no.31 trailing points in the Down slow no.1 line and continuing on through the Down slow no.1 platform line towards Wood Green No.3 box at the north end of the station. .... "
That all sounds very interesting Mickey. I've never seen any sort of diagram of WG1 without all or most of the later TCs.
Would be interesting to see sometime.
I shall have to sort something out about doing that Stevie plus also I will show you my other S&T plans that were all obtained originally from a drawing office at Kings Cross by a long lost railway friend of mine back in 1970-71 but I can't remember if he told me at the time if they had come from the east or west side offices(?) but he said that these plans had been dumped in a bin at the station so presumedly someone at that time was having a clear out and dumped the lot.

My following post is going to list all the S&T plans that I still have in my possession since my friend gave me them back in 1970-71.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
Mickey
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 950
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: GN London s/boxes c1969

Post by Mickey »

S&T B.R. Eastern Region/GN line signal box alteration plans in no particular order.

1. Conington North p.way alterations 07/11/56
2. Conington South p.way alterations 18/01/60
3. Conington accident at Wood Walton 15/12/61
4. Huntingdon-Leys widening (passed Stukeley s/box towards Abbots Ripton) 06/05/59
5. Abbots Ripton p.way alterations 03/11/58
6. Corby Glen 21/02/62
7. Three Counties proposed alterations to p.way 13/09/50
8. Welwyn North proposed alteration to Up (line) directing distants (and the Up line distant signal repostioned nearer to Woolmer Green box) 05/10/45
9. Welwyn Garden City alteration to signalling with new additional (Up) sidings 16/11/60
10. Horney Up Goods proposed new connection to fuelling depot 03/09/58
11. Hornsey Up Goods p.way renewals (and) TCs in lieu of bars 09/03/59
12. Hornsey No.1 26/08/47 All points and signals are shown on this plan but the points are all unnumbered but all the signals are numbered
13. Goods And Mineral Junction 01/05/52 p.way renewals in 1952 (and) additional TCs. This plan shows only a part of the Goods And Mineral Junction box layout around the box area and not the full track layout
14. Wood Green No.1 dated 1961 which has already been mentioned above in the Wood Green No.1 post

Additional S&T plans below that were 'lost' during the 1970s that were with the above S&T plans from Kings Cross 52 years ago in 1970

15. Kings Cross 1932 s/box S&T plan probably dating from the 1960s of the entire layout which was quite a large plan but that was lost way back in the 1970s
16. Welwyn Garden City s/box S&T plan probably dating from the 1960s of the entire layout which again was lost during the 1970s
17. Wood Green Up Box No.4 the complete S&T plan of no.4 that was probably dated some time during in the 1960s(?) but I showed it to George Croft in 1985 (George Croft was a onetime signalman on the Kings Cross area during the 1950s & 1960s) because George had worked Wood Green no.4 at some stage during the 1950s or 1960s and he asked me if he could have the entire track plan for 'nostalgic reasons' so I gave him the plan.

The Welwyn North S&T plan dated 1945 LNER is rather interesting as it shows the repositioning of Welwyn North's Up line 'directiong distant signals' nos.13 & 14 signals with no.13 distant signal being carried underneath Welwyn North's Up line home signal no.15 which with no.14 'directing distant signal' were all carried on a lattice cantiliver signal post at the north end of the Up line platform at Welwyn North station (this cantilever signal post also carried Welwyn North's Down line co-acting starting signal towards Woolmer Green until September 1973 when the box was closed and abolished although the Up line signals were long since replaced by a muti-aspect colour light signal worked by Welwyn North box which also acted as Welwyn Garden City's Up line outer distant signal during the 1960s and early 1970s). No.13 'directing distant signal' was for the straight route along the Up fast line at the south end of Digswell viaduct and no.14 'directing distant signal' was for the 'turn in' onto and along the Up slow line at the south end of Digswell viaduct obviously with either no.16 the Up line starter or no.17 the Up line to Up slow line signal situated at the south end of Digswell viaduct being also 'cleared' as well. These two 'directing distant signals' no.13 & no.14 were to be repositioned in between Welwyn north and Welwyn south tunnels on two separate straight signal posts standing side by side where Welwyn North's original Up line distant signal was situated which meant that the Welwyn North Up line distant signal no.12 (formerly no.11 signal) was repositioned further back underneath Woolmer Green's Up line starting signal near to the entrance to Welwyn north tunnel. This distant sinal no.12 I wondered if it was a 'motorised signal' as I suspect that if it was 'on the wire' between Welwyn North box and the northern entrance to Welwyn north tunnel that would have been a long 'heavy pull' for a signalman but no mention is made on this S&T plan of no.12 distant being 'motor' operated.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
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