The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

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West_Stanley
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The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by West_Stanley »

Can someone please tell me which one that was? It's generally known that the first five were built by the LMS (two) and the Southern (three), though the latter four were completed by British Railways. I don't think that the sixth locomotive was Sulzer Type 4 Scafell Pike, even though its running number was D1
silverfox
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by silverfox »

d200 14/3/58
d600 28/3/58

Great site http://www.brdatabase.info/ google is your friend

however the class 15/20 and 30(31) were introduced in 1957
65447
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by 65447 »

West_Stanley wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:10 am Can someone please tell me which one that was? It's generally known that the first five were built by the LMS (two) and the Southern (three), though the latter four were completed by British Railways. I don't think that the sixth locomotive was Sulzer Type 4 Scafell Pike, even though its running number was D1
Since these were all in a sense trial versions then the third was probably 10100, the Fell built by DR Derby and into service in 1950. That would by your reckoning make SR's 10203 the sixth. But it was also later than the North British prototype Bo-Bo 10800, ordered by the LMS in 1946 that also entered service in 1950.

But the GWR had ordered the first gas turbine locomotive 18000 in 1940, it being delivered in 1949, and the second arrived in 1952.

So an in-depth knowledge of the individual operational dates would be required to determine which entered service in what order, especially during 1950 which seems to have been a bumper year.
Hatfield Shed
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by Hatfield Shed »

And then in main line diesel protoypes before BR's production commenced there's EE's DP1 which droned onto the rails in 1955.

I suppose the GT3 gas turbine has to be mentioned too...
65447
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by 65447 »

Hatfield Shed wrote: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:31 pm And then in main line diesel protoypes before BR's production commenced there's EE's DP1 which droned onto the rails in 1955.

I suppose the GT3 gas turbine has to be mentioned too...
I did not include these because they were not ordered by the railway companies but were for rail-testing by the manufacturers. The appellation DP1 was never carried, only ever the name 'DELTIC'. Then there were Lion, Falcon and Kestrel too, but somewhat later.
Pyewipe Junction
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by Pyewipe Junction »

Talk about a thread going off topic!

I presume the term 'main-line' diesel means a locomotive capable of operating main-line passenger or freight services, which of course excludes diesel shunters.

I believe the order is as follows:

10000 - December 1947
10001 - June 1948
10800 - 1950 ( can't be specific on month)
10201 - November 1950 (trials), August 1951 (in service)
10202 - August 1951
10100 - 1951/2 (dates are vague).

Mention should also be made of 11001, which entered service in 1948 and was a sort of precursor of of class 14, intended for local freight work.

If you include 11001, the sixth main-line diesel loco was either 10202 or 10100.
65447
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by 65447 »

Pyewipe Jcn - this is pretty much on topic compared to many threads.

10000 - 30th November 1947
10001 - 10th July 1948
18000 - early 1950 (Gas Turbine)
10800 - 1st July 1950
10100 - ? December 1950
10201 - 30th December 1950
10202 - 15th September 1951
18100 - ? December 1951 (Gas Turbine)
10203 - ? July 1954

[? denotes day of the month uncertain]

So 10202 was the sixth if only counting compression-ignition power units, or 10201 if counting all main line types powered by petroleum products having some form of internal combustion.
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by Pyewipe Junction »

According to HAV Bulleid in Master Builders of Steam, 10000 came out of Derby Works on 8 December 1947, driven by Ivatt himself. Why it took so long to build its companion I don't know, unless they were waiting to see if any problems came to light.

It seems that 10201 was taken out of service some time in mid-1951 to be prepared for exhibition at the Festival of Britain.

I find 10100 the most interesting of of the early diesels. Apparently power to weight ratio and low-speed torque were very good. Although I doubt whether the design would have been taken up it does seem to have been reasonably successful until it failed because of a loose bolt or something like that. It was then simply abandoned for several years before being scrapped.
rockinjohn
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive/(34B)

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi all well I dont think any of the Main line Diesels ventured on to "our"patch until D201 was sighted,however I did spy 11001 @34B in the mid'50's exact date long forgotten it was designed by Bullied & it showed in those strange USA style looking Boxpok fitted wheels,which is the main visual feature that stuck in my mind,I think this was the forerunner in idea of the EE type 1/BTH Paxman along with 10800 for trip working & shunting,not sure if it got to Stratford (30A) or Neasden(34E) for trials, the usual Eastern Region Areas in London,Next time I saw it was @ Norwood Junc.after a short stint @ Feltham on the Hump.jj
kudu
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by kudu »

At risk of being accused of going off-topic, may I remind everyone that 10000 was not the first main-line diesel, but only the first main-line diesel LOCOMOTIVE. The first diesel-powered unit to run on the main line was GWR railcar no 1 in 1934, the first of 38 built up to 1942. Aside from the technical innovation I would regard these units as the epitome of Art Deco on rail.

By the way, shouldn't we regard it as almost criminal that 10000 was not preserved? Even I would have to concede that enthusiasm for steam can sometimes go too far.

Kudu
Mickey
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by Mickey »

kudu wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:46 pm At risk of being accused of going off-topic, may I remind everyone that 10000 was not the first main-line diesel, but only the first main-line diesel LOCOMOTIVE. The first diesel-powered unit to run on the main line was GWR railcar no 1 in 1934, the first of 38 built up to 1942. Aside from the technical innovation I would regard these units as the epitome of Art Deco on rail.

By the way, shouldn't we regard it as almost criminal that 10000 was not preserved? Even I would have to concede that enthusiasm for steam can sometimes go too far.
No.10000 and No.10001 were not bad looking diesel locomotives to be honest from the LMS with both prototype locos looking similar in some respects to the Midland 'peaks' later on at the end of the 1950s.

The prototype Deltic was preserved.

With regards to the GWR railcars I have seen some film footage filmed by the GWR of one of those railcars in traffic possibly on the 'Greenford loop' to the west of London during the late 1930s and the driver is seen sitting alone in the cab wearing an all-white long coat that made him look like an 'ice cream man' better suited to be selling ice creams on Brighton pier and received some strange glances from a couple of steam locomen as they walked past the railcar in the platform.
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rockinjohn
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi Mickey&all,I remember seeing the GWR parcel railcars @ the platforms in Paddington over near the Surburban &Metropolitan lines,they were pretty tatty by the early '60's their duties I think an AM Run out&back,the same run occuring in the Afternoon also, they never went much further than Reading or possibly High Wycombe stopping off where needed to be on the journey, they were if London Based, Serviced&Repaired @ the AEC Works alongside the Western Main line @Southall,The Midlands&Worcester Area units were serviced by a mixture of BR mechanics &2 AEC travelling staff, based locally, Dbl units with an extra carriage placed between were for the Birmingham/Cardiff service & were based @ Tyseley.
The GWR Parcel cars were replaced by New Parcel DM Units,which I can just remember, unlike the orig. cars which always looked quirky & some cars part streamlined looking quite futuristic, most had gone by the Early/Mid Sixties.jj
4812
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by 4812 »

In the matter of priority it's a minor point (and another digression from locomotives) but RCTS 10B tells us that the first of the LNER's Armstrong Whitworth diesel-electric railcars, 'Tyneside Venturer', was put into service in January 1933, a little over a year before the first of the GWR's which was mentioned by kudu. The GWR diesel-mechanical cars proved to be more reliable though.
rockinjohn
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi 4812, the GWR railcars were reliable to a point, both parcel & railcar variants, the engines well yes, after all they were AEC & basically a bus/lorry engine possibly uprated &proven, the problem lay with the gearbox which needed to be adjusted overnight& every night,certainly on the allocation outside of London, entry gained via a trapdoor in the car floor,once adjustments were made all good for another tour of duty (24hrs), tiresome possibly, but they lasted &reliable as you said.jj
Mickey
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Re: The UK's Sixth Main Line Diesel Locomotive

Post by Mickey »

Talking of the GWR I read something somewhere a couple of years ago about the prototype Western diesel-hydraulic (latter-day class 52) was conceived and drawn up in the Swindon drawing office during the last days or months of the GWR just before the nationalization of Britain's railways in 1948 so, therefore the 'Western' diesel-hydraulic loco was the final locomotive development of the traffic department of God's Wonderful Railway.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
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