The LNER Encyclopedia

It seems that the railway companies all have different ideas about future traction, GWR have no interest in hydrogen but Scotrail does, GWR are very interested in battery operation for the Thames Valley branches and are thinking about the remaining West Country branch lines going the same way. They also are very keen on completing the paused electrification onwards to Oxford and Bristol. With new traction now being considered for other parts of the country we will have to wait to see what forms they shape up to be.

Mickey wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:07 am The talk is now of HYDROGEN powered trains being the future and Electric powered trains being from the last century.

The beauty of electric power is the ability to recover kinetic energy into the distribution system. Since trains are required to stop this makes it a winner wherever there is high enough traffic density to justify the expensive supply infrastructure.

Hydrogen has good potential where electrification cannot be justified, and particularly so in locations where there is plentiful renewable electricity generation opportunity. Use solar, wind and water to generate for electrolysis to produce hydrogen, and you are cooking with gas.

But few have worked with hydrogen, and as one who has I can tell you it needs expert attention at all times. The problem is that it is a tiny molecule, and does it find a way of escaping through the tiniest flaws in any system. Don't be concerned about 'explosion hazard', that's a tired old trope which good design overcomes. Because it is the lowest density gas, storage must be 'on top' with clear ventilation paths to atmosphere wherever it is handled. That way any escape that occurs happens above the vehicle in the open air, and should it be ignited the pretty red fireball goes harmlessly up and away. (Anyone who has seen it can confirm that the rate at which it moves upwards is most impressive.)

In short, worth trying for locations with renewable electricity generation and low traffic density, but the hydrogen handling engineering needs to be good (= expensive) for optimum results.

They could try steam power.......................

No one else bit... If there is going to be combustion power, the thermal efficiency has to be high, and liquid fuel is the proven winner. Quite likely a hybrid design with a battery system so there's energy recovery when slowing for stops and on downgrades, and for routes with some installed overhead, running off the juice when available.

Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:55 am No one else bit... If there is going to be combustion power, the thermal efficiency has to be high, and liquid fuel is the proven winner. Quite likely a hybrid design with a battery system so there's energy recovery when slowing for stops and on downgrades, and for routes with some installed overhead, running off the juice when available.

Give us a Deltic any day

Many years ago I recall hearing from an old railwayman that under certain conditions it is possible to sit on a 'live juice rail without sitting on a rubber mat' and drink a cup of tea I presume that 'party trick' was performed during dry weather?. He also went onto say that occasionally when he was wearing his old B.R. long overcoat and he happened to be crossing a 750 DC third rail and the bottom of the coat touched the 'juice rail' it would give him a nasty KICK!.

I have recently picked up that development work has been authorised for the possible electrification of the short sections around Acton Wells, if this goes ahead then it would surely be common sense to keep this team together and then go onto Didcot to Oxford then continue westwards from Chippenham with an expanding team. Yes it would take a few years but it would make sense.

As ever the dismal science has to be applied: what's the economic justification? Against the current background in UK railway building it will have to be rock solid.

We are not going through a good time on the railway as regards common sense but if this small scheme should come about then the door is slightly opened for more small schemes such as Didcot to Oxford to follow on. Its politics whether we like it or not and with a General Election coming up "common sense" might just happen in a few more cases.

sandwhich wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 7:00 pm I have recently picked up that development work has been authorised for the possible electrification of the short sections around Acton Wells, if this goes ahead then it would surely be common sense to keep this team together and then go onto Didcot to Oxford then continue westwards from Chippenham with an expanding team. Yes it would take a few years but it would make sense.

I haven't been around Acton Wells for many years and no need to these days now that I am retired from the railway anyway when I was a relief signalman on the north London line between 1987-1990 I use to work 'the Wells' which is still currently there in 2023 both as a lever frame box and then when the then new NX panel was commissioned in 1989 (since decommissioned) anyway sandwhich out of curiosity are you referring to the Up & Down 'Poplar lines' between Acton Wells Junction and Acton main line/Acton yard on the western region or the bi-directional 'Conn line' between Willesden and Acton Canal Wharf and forward to Acton Wells Junction?. I presume that you mean the 'Poplar lines' between Acton Wells Junction and Acton main line/Acton yard?.

When I worked Acton Wells box it was still third rail DC electrified from Richmond across all of the north London line down to North Woolwich before the route was terminated at Stratford low level and the overheads went up around 1996 between Camden Road through Willesden high level and South Acton.

Yes Mickey you are right Acton Wells to Acton Yard is the development work plan I misread it.

sandwhich wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:42 pm Yes Mickey you are right Acton Wells to Acton Yard is the development work plan I misread it.

That shouldn't be to difficult a job to 'wire up' the Up & Down Poplar lines being basically two parallel straight lines between Acton Wells Junction coming off a right-hand curve and then two straight lines down the falling gradient to the connections lower down the gradient for Acton main line & Acton yard at a rough guess of about half mile in length?.

Its getting to something when Network Rail cannot go ahead with those very small electrification schemes without the Dft having a say whether it should or should not happen.

Any complex network - such as the UK's standard gauge railways - immediately demands an oversight body to authorise all changes, however small and seemingly 'common sense'. It's no fun I may assure you from experience in a different field, when assigned to such an 'O be joyful' role, thanks to my recognised specialist knowledge. (I shouldn't have worked so hard to build the knowledge had I known...) On stepping down from the role I happily 'handed on' the work in progress, and the last of these was concluded and closed some eight years later.