EL CID sign of Finsbury Park no.6 s/box

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Mickey

EL CID sign of Finsbury Park no.6 s/box

Post by Mickey »

For those that may remember?. Who was the person that the small wooden homemade sign with EL CID written on it fixed above the doorway to Finsbury Park no.6 s/box referring to if it's not to an indiscreet a question to ask 40 years on?.

I can't recall the exact year that this sign first appeared maybe 1972 or 73 but it probably bemused the odd weary commuter when looking out of the window of a homeward bound afternoon/evening train on leaving the Down fast line platform at Finsbury Park station and passing Finsbury Park no.6 s/box 40 years ago it did me?.

Was it preserved?. :wink:

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Last edited by Mickey on Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
geofrancis
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Re: EL CID

Post by geofrancis »

The only El Cid I Know of is a Bowling Club near Javea Spain
Geofrancis.
Mickey

Re: EL CID

Post by Mickey »

geofrancis wrote:The only El Cid I Know of is a Bowling Club near Javea Spain
Geofrancis.
Nice one Geofrancis but not the same EL CID i was thinking about. :wink:

If Dave Cockle comes on here he may know cos Dave was at Finsbury Park no.6 as a 'tele lad' around 1970-71 i believe?.

John (the signalman) may know as well?.

I'll try and post a picture of said EL CID sign above the doorway of Finsbury Park no.6 in a day or two?. :wink:
penyghent
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Re: EL CID

Post by penyghent »

As far as I know the gentleman in question was a signalman named Sid (his second name eludes me at present) who was a relief signalman around the Finsbury Park/Kings Cross area in the 1970's. He moved to Worksop to work in the TOPS office in about 1977/8 and became a Movements Manager at Worksop. The attached image shows Sid leaning on the railings outside the TOPS office at Worksop, with a young Mark Tyrell behind (Mark still works at Worksop for DBS). I was a signalman at Worksop Sidings when he arrived and he used to recount tales of signalling trains out of Kings Cross. It was he who told me about the sign above the door. He was a great bloke to work with and is sadly missed. If I can recall his surname I will post it later.
Sid and Mark Tyrell at Worksop
Sid and Mark Tyrell at Worksop
Sid.JPG (10.13 KiB) Viewed 10130 times
Mickey

Re: EL CID

Post by Mickey »

Nice one penyghent i appreciate your post. Yes that small EL CID sign above the doorway of Finsbury Park no.6 held a bit of a mystery to me and probably a number of others back then and is featured in a small number of photographs of the box taken during the 1972-74 period.

hq1hitchin, Stevie, Dave Cockle & John (the signalman) may well remember Sid?.

As previously posted i'll try and post a picture of said sign in a day or two. :wink:
Mickey

Re: EL CID

Post by Mickey »

I remember hearing that there was a number of signalmen who were working some of the London boxes around the Finsbury Park area in the early 1970s who were 'on temporary loan' from up north one of the boxes i believe where there was a 'on loan' signalman was at Finsbury Park no.6 so was Sid one of those signalmen from up north?.

Dave Cockle would probably be the best fella to know about the goings on around the Finsbury Park area in the early 1970s i reckon?.
Mickey

Re: EL CID

Post by Mickey »

Deltic no.55 005 The Prince of Wales Own Regiment of Yorkshire is seen passing Finsbury Park no.6 on the 07:20hrs Newcastle to Kings Cross in July 1973 note the EL CID sign above the doorway of Finsbury Park no.6 (signalled the Up lines only) also Finsbury Park no.5 (signalled the Down lines only) is seen to the left of the photograph.
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thesignalman
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Re: EL CID

Post by thesignalman »

Micky wrote:I remember hearing that there was a number of signalmen who were working some of the London boxes around the Finsbury Park area in the early 1970s who were 'on temporary loan' from up north one of the boxes i believe where there was a 'on loan' signalman was at Finsbury Park no.6 so was Sid one of those signalmen from up north?.
When I was at Kings Cross 1971-73 there weren't any staff "on loan" on the area but there were plenty that had transferred to the London area the benefit from other parts of the Eastern Region for better grades and promotional aspects. One, at least, had come from as far as Newcastle but we had plenty from places such as Doncaster, Lincolnshire and East Anglia.

By 1973 the London area was seriously crippled with staff owing to non-recruitment in anticipation of resignalling, but I don't think any signalmen were ever brought in from other areas on loan as was done on the Midland some years later.

John
"BX there, boy!"
Signalling history: https://www.signalbox.org/
Signalling and other railway photographs: https://433shop.co.uk/
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StevieG
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Re: EL CID

Post by StevieG »

thesignalman wrote:
Micky wrote:I remember hearing that there was a number of signalmen who were working some of the London boxes around the Finsbury Park area in the early 1970s who were 'on temporary loan' from up north one of the boxes i believe where there was a 'on loan' signalman was at Finsbury Park no.6 so was Sid one of those signalmen from up north?.
When I was at Kings Cross 1971-73 there weren't any staff "on loan" on the area but there were plenty that had transferred to the London area the benefit from other parts of the Eastern Region for better grades and promotional aspects. One, at least, had come from as far as Newcastle but we had plenty from places such as Doncaster, Lincolnshire and East Anglia.

By 1973 the London area was seriously crippled with staff owing to non-recruitment in anticipation of resignalling, but I don't think any signalmen were ever brought in from other areas on loan as was done on the Midland some years later.

John
I can concur with that John. Some (most?) had relief posts IIRC, and encountered some good such fellows at places as far apart as Woolmer Green and Finsbury Park No.5.

Micky, sorry, but apart from remembering 'EL CID' being visible, I know nothing as to its origin.
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Andy W
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Re: EL CID sign of Finsbury Park no.6 s/box

Post by Andy W »

I know of one signalman (a relation of my ex) who went from Kirton when the East Lincs closed in late 1970 and worked north of Hitchin - he rated Three Counties as his favourite box. Made redundant for a second time he went back to Lincolnshire to work for the GPO.

He said that quite a few men made redundant from up north didn't move house and were always looking for something more local to home. Not easy in the early 1970s.
Mickey

Re: EL CID

Post by Mickey »

thesignalman wrote:
Micky wrote:I remember hearing that there was a number of signalmen who were working some of the London boxes around the Finsbury Park area in the early 1970s who were 'on temporary loan' from up north one of the boxes i believe where there was a 'on loan' signalman was at Finsbury Park no.6 so was Sid one of those signalmen from up north?.
When I was at Kings Cross 1971-73 there weren't any staff "on loan" on the area but there were plenty that had transferred to the London area the benefit from other parts of the Eastern Region for better grades and promotional aspects. One, at least, had come from as far as Newcastle but we had plenty from places such as Doncaster, Lincolnshire and East Anglia.

By 1973 the London area was seriously crippled with staff owing to non-recruitment in anticipation of resignalling, but I don't think any signalmen were ever brought in from other areas on loan as was done on the Midland some years later.
I was thinking more of the year 1974 in particular John because i think i vaguely recall someone saying to me that some of those blokes that were working the London boxes during that year were from up north and were 'on loan' but that may well have been the wrong term to use for those men then?. I use to like Finsbury Park no.6 and visited the box on two occasions around 1972 and as previously posted by me once before on being made redundant at WGC in March 1974 i actually had it in writing in a letter that i had got the vacant 'tele lads' position at no.6 but i never took up the position opting for a secondman's job on the loco at Kings Cross instead for about 18 months.

There was a young fella called Alister who use to go to my old secondary school and who was a year older then me he got a position as a telegraph lad at Finsbury Park no.6 on leaving secondary school and was there during the 1971-72 period before transferring over to Down side of the line at Finsbury Park no.3 sometime during 1972-73 period for about a year before finally transferring on to the loco at Kings Cross as a secondman Dave Cockle who was a tele lad himself around Finsbury Park in the early 1970s and who comes on here occasionally actually remembers him.
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thesignalman
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Re: EL CID

Post by thesignalman »

Micky wrote:There was a young fella called Alister who use to go to my old secondary school and who was a year older then me he got a position as a telegraph lad at Finsbury Park no.6 on leaving secondary school and was there during the 1971-72 period before transferring over to Down side of the line at Finsbury Park no.3 sometime during 1972-73 period for about a year before finally transferring on to the loco at Kings Cross as a secondman
I think he and I may have been together at the Signals School in Ilford in 1971. The move to No3 box makes financial sense, that box and Kings Cross were considered busy enough to grant porter's wages rather than boy's. I can't say I remember him being at No3 but do recall him going on the footplate so we are probably talking about the same chap. I have it in the back of my mind he lived in the WGC area, was that where you were schooled?

John
"BX there, boy!"
Signalling history: https://www.signalbox.org/
Signalling and other railway photographs: https://433shop.co.uk/
Mickey

Re: EL CID

Post by Mickey »

thesignalman wrote:
Micky wrote:There was a young fella called Alister who use to go to my old secondary school and who was a year older then me he got a position as a telegraph lad at Finsbury Park no.6 on leaving secondary school and was there during the 1971-72 period before transferring over to Down side of the line at Finsbury Park no.3 sometime during 1972-73 period for about a year before finally transferring on to the loco at Kings Cross as a secondman
I think he and I may have been together at the Signals School in Ilford in 1971. The move to No3 box makes financial sense, that box and Kings Cross were considered busy enough to grant porter's wages rather than boy's. I can't say I remember him being at No3 but do recall him going on the footplate so we are probably talking about the same chap. I have it in the back of my mind he lived in the WGC area, was that where you were schooled?.
Could well have been Alister John?, there was another telegraph lad at Finsbury Park no.6 in the early 1970s and i forgot how it came about now but i was invited up no.6 by him one afternoon back in 1972 and he the telegraph lad i recall was pretty much working the box the signalman on duty didn't seem to bothered although thinking about it again 42 years later i believe i recall the signalman occasionally working on the s/n telegraph instrument strangely enough instead of doing much lever pulling on the frame?. Anyway as posted once before 3 or 4 years ago at one point the 'tele lad' who was working on the frame decides for reasons of his own to 'turn in' off the Up fast line a 'parly' (it may have been either a Royston or a Hitchin to Kings Cross Rolls Royce DMU set i vaguely recall?) and after being 'turned in' off the Up fast line at no.6 the same train was immediately 'turned out' back Up the fast line at the south end of the station at no.4 much to the laughter of all those in no.6 and a remark from the signalman to the telegraph lad of "What did you turn him in for he's just turned him back out at no.4 silly boy?".

Another episode shortly after the above one was when the signalman pulled off for a light engine off either the Up goods no.1 or no.2 into the Up slow line platform road and a 2nd light engine takes the dolly (disc-signal) that was standing behind the 1st light engine as he's moved off as well!. The signalman's remarkably calm response was "Oh dear looks like we've just got 2 in a section?". Fortunately the 2nd light engine stopped outside the box and a few words were exchanged between the signalman and the driver at the open window obviously the driver of the 2nd light engine had saw the 1st light engine ahead of him at the other end of the Up slow line platform at no.4s signals.

Getting back to Alister and Finsbury Park no.3 i can't remember how it came about again but i was also invited up no.3 one afternoon by Alister the signalman on duty being a Asian or Indian bloke (Dave Cockle knew him) who didn't seem to mind me being there and hardly spoke at all to either Alister or me, i remember Alister showing me the Down fast line block & levers nos.79 & 80 and telling me that those levers were the telegraph lads levers and the telegraph lad was expected to work those levers by all the signalmen that worked no.3, i think the telegraph lads book & telephones were located at the door end of the box opposite nos.79 & 80 levers i recall and that the 'tele lad' being close to those levers most of the time usually it saved the signalman having to walk down to them from being further up the box just to pull them off.

Good old days, we won't see the likes of them again. :wink:
hq1hitchin
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Re: EL CID sign of Finsbury Park no.6 s/box

Post by hq1hitchin »

I remember Sid, he was one of a few signalmen on loan to the KX Division from the early 1970s onwards, a gentleman and well thought of, hence the sign in his honour. Came from Yorkshire, quietly spoken and affable, that's about all I can remember. Others were at,for instance, Biggleswade, both on twelve hours and lodging locally. Sign of the times then
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thesignalman
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Re: EL CID

Post by thesignalman »

Try as I can I do not recall this gentleman Sid although I can picture one of the others there. Although No6 telephoned us at Kings Cross when every Up express passed, the calls were always brief (as we had to act on the call) so we didn't get to chat a lot with the boys or the signalmen.
Micky wrote:Anyway as posted once before 3 or 4 years ago at one point the 'tele lad' who was working on the frame decides for reasons of his own to 'turn in' off the Up fast line a 'parly' (it may have been either a Royston or a Hitchin to Kings Cross Rolls Royce DMU set i vaguely recall?) and after being 'turned in' off the Up fast line at no.6 the same train was immediately 'turned out' back Up the fast line at the south end of the station at no.4 much to the laughter of all those in no.6 and a remark from the signalman to the telegraph lad of "What did you turn him in for he's just turned him back out at no.4 silly boy?".
Not surprising as it was normal for No4 or Holloway South Up to turn out as much as possible as anything other than for Platforms 1, 2 & 4 (or Moorgate) had to go Relief Line at Belle Isle which meant Main (Fast) Line from South Up.

The only amusing story I recall about No6 was when an enthusiastic telegraph lad cleared a Goods Line distant for some Empty Stock. So surprised was the driver that he pulled up and reported that vandals had been fiddling with the distant!
Micky wrote:Getting back to Alister and Finsbury Park no.3 i can't remember how it came about again but i was also invited up no.3 one afternoon by Alister the signalman on duty being a Asian or Indian bloke (Dave Cockle knew him) who didn't seem to mind me being there and hardly spoke at all to either Alister or me, i remember Alister showing me the Down fast line block & levers nos.79 & 80 and telling me that those levers were the telegraph lads levers and the telegraph lad was expected to work those levers by all the signalmen that worked no.3, i think the telegraph lads book & telephones were located at the door end of the box opposite nos.79 & 80 levers i recall and that the 'tele lad' being close to those levers most of the time usually it saved the signalman having to walk down to them from being further up the box just to pull them off.
I think I've told the story before but I was sent to No3 one day on overtime without notice and I had never set foot in the place before. I stood at the desk and did my best to record activity but being green I was struggling to figure what was going on and I got no help whatsoever from the signalman who wouldn't even speak to me. I later learnt this hostility was due to my not working 79 and 80 levers. He need only have asked because such a pleasure would have delighted me as a keen youngster.

John
"BX there, boy!"
Signalling history: https://www.signalbox.org/
Signalling and other railway photographs: https://433shop.co.uk/
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