Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

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jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3827
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by jwealleans »

Some of you may have seen this before, but it came my way in some 6 wheeler photos Roy Mears kindly lent me.

Does anyone know what it was used for or where it was based?

It looks like a 5 compartment BT with a ducket added and side ladders - so access to the roof must have been required. End windows suggest observation or inspection use - signal maintenance/inspection? Still in teak livery with carriage lettering as well.
LNER_940481.jpg
It would be a cracking vehicle to model.
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by john coffin »

Fascinating item, the ladder in the middle certainly suggests an inspection vehicle.

What is interesting is that the brake ducket is a long way from the big windows on the end which were usually
at the brake end of some suburban stock, so obviously it was cobbled together from more than one vehicle.

Paul
JASd17
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1271
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by JASd17 »

It looks originally to have been a 5-compartment vehicle (Third?), but not a brake. All the original compartments appear to have been the same size. The ducket is a later addition. And only the centre compartment door remains.

John
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3827
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by jwealleans »

That was how I interpreted it, and the end had been cut out to allow the windows to be added.

The photo was apparently taken at Willesden in 1954, so either it was on its way to be broken up or whatever it was used for it was useful enough for the LMR to borrow it.
Last edited by jwealleans on Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trestrol
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
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Location: Earsdon Grange signal box

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by Trestrol »

It’s a Howldon Great Northern Railway carriage.
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by john coffin »

We all know it is a HOWLDEN coach basically, however it is much more interesting than that.

Whilst I understand the idea that the end was "cut out" to create the windows is attractive, however, close inspection
really does show that it is an end of some of the suburban stock built toward the end of the 6 wheeler process on the
GNR.

Paul
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3827
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by jwealleans »

I'm not familiar with the suburban diagrams, but you're saying they've grafted the end from one of those onto the body of an all-3rd.

Were those large windows in a brake compartment originally, then?
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by john coffin »

Certainly that is the impression I have of this item. Somewhere in my system I have a photo which I will try to find.

Knowing the way the GNR and indeed the LNER were parsimonious it seems more likely to me that they would have
swapped the end of one coach which had been scrapped than cut out the end panel, because that would I think
have made it very weak owing the the depth of the standard coach ends.

Paul
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by john coffin »

I have been looking again at stuff that I have, and this is a very interesting carriage to me.

I am less sure about my idea of suburban stock windows, and rather it seems like the windows are
similar to those used on the Railmotors. The suburban ones that I have found so far do not have them
going as far into the roof. However, I am still convinced that they would not have been able to only
chop wood out to put those windows in, they would I think certainly have built something new.

Certainly the ducket, would have required some heavy duty cutting and shutting to install it, and what we
do not know is whether there were actually two of them.

Interesting stuff under the body, with some kind of beam going from the centre W iron to the front, as
well as the separate piece of ladder under the main one.

If we could get more data, it would certainly make an interesting model.

paul
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3827
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by jwealleans »

Duckets were both sides. If you Google LNER 940481 then two more images come up, unfortunately with large copyright watermarks all over them. You can see enough to see that, though.
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by john coffin »

very interesting photos. seems not to have a ladder on both sides though!

Paul
mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by mick b »

john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by john coffin »

Thanks for the reference Mick, but you may not have noticed that the two photographs are from the same side.

So, if you look carefully, you will see the details confirm this. Which means we do not actually know whether the duckets and ladder
are on both side based on these photos.

However the really interesting news is that we discover that there are windows at each end which go the full depth from waist to roof.
And another point for the "experts" is that this was taken in 1954 on another part of BR, ie LMR at Willesden, but the original LNER style
lettering and numbering are still clearly evident.

Paul
UpDistant
NBR J36 0-6-0
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Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by UpDistant »

Ladders and duckets BOTH sides.

The photo in JW's original post shows the ladder to the right of the ducket, whereas the two taken at Willesden show the ladder to the left of the ducket. Although the two taken at Willesden are rather spoiled by the copyright notice, if you are using a PC, hit CTRL and + a couple of times to maximise the size of the photo on your screen - it brings out a lot of detail. Hit CTRL and 0 (zero) to return to normal viewing.
mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3402
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 4:43 pm

Re: Departmental 6 wheeler 940481

Post by mick b »

Also the long metal piece to the left under the Solebar, as is the Vacumn pipe are not in those photos. I had to look twice !! :D
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