What are these coaches....?

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nutford
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What are these coaches....?

Post by nutford » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:23 pm

This pic is labelled 'Ripon, 1933'.

I can vouch for it being Ripon, it may indeed be 1933, but what are those coaches?
Picture2.jpg
They don't look to me like Pullmans, and from the logo on the centre I suspect they might be GWR coaches, but I can't match them to anything obvious there either. And while there was I think a Barry-Newcastle express, which had LNER, LMS and GWR coaches, I'd thought that went down the ECML to York.

I had thought they were LNER Tourist stock, but again couldn't quite match them up to anything, and the motif in the centre didn't seem to match any pics I have...

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks

JASd17
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by JASd17 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:04 pm

At first glance they are Great Western. I shall have to look further into the books.


John

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strang steel
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by strang steel » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am

Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
John

John Palmer
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by John Palmer » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:03 am

These look to me like the first two vehicles in one of the GW's 1925-built articulated dining triplets to Diagrams H.30, H.31 and H.32 (1st-Kitchen-3rd). All rebuilt into individual vehicles by 1937, so evidently regarded by the GWR as something of an unsuccessful experiment.

jwealleans
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by jwealleans » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am

John, didn't we spot that GW articulated set on a Hull working in a Carriage Working document some time ago?

nutford
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by nutford » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm

strang steel wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
Rather you than me.... took 12 hours.....

The odd thing if those coaches are restaurant cars is they would (you would think) be in the centre of the train? I read..

'The G.W.R. usually make up the train with a composite restaurant car in the centre, flanked by composite coaches on both sides and third-class brakes outside them, together with a composite brake for Hull, all of the latest 60 ft, steel-panelled stock.The L.N.E.R. use a third-class brake, a third corridor, an open third-class coach for diners, a combined kitchen and dining car and a first-class brake, with an additional composite brake to and from Hull, all of the newest East Coast stock.'

Of course this could be a different train, but still odd for restaurant cars next to the engine...?

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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by jwealleans » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:39 pm

Unless they're attached/detached en route.

nutford
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by nutford » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 pm

jwealleans wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:39 pm
Unless they're attached/detached en route.
Indeed. The Newcastle-Barry train apparently had 2 LMS coaches at the front initially which might have given some explanation, BUT these were detached at York. So IF this was that train,
a) it's odd (but not impossible) for it to be going via Ripon, and
b) either way the LMS coaches should be at the front.

My thinking so far is this is a different train...

Danby Wiske
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by Danby Wiske » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:45 am

If the train had been diverted via the Leeds Northern line (for whatever reason), then maybe the 'usual' carriage working practices would have to be altered. This might explain the absence of the LMS vehicles...

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billbedford
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by billbedford » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:41 am

nutford wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 pm
jwealleans wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:39 pm
Unless they're attached/detached en route.
Indeed. The Newcastle-Barry train apparently had 2 LMS coaches at the front initially which might have given some explanation, BUT these were detached at York.
So where were the LMS coaches attached? There are no obvious places where this could happen.
Bill Bedford
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Danby Wiske
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by Danby Wiske » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:09 am

LMS through coaches Bristol-Newcastle and return. On the train in question they were normally detached at York and then travelled by the Midland route via Sheffield, Derby and Birmingham.
See article from Meccano magazine here:
https://railwaywondersoftheworld.com/ports.html

John Palmer
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by John Palmer » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:12 pm

As an alternative to attaching/detaching the Bristol portion at York, doing so at Gloucester looks reasonably straightforward, given the connections between the GW and Midland stations. It would appear that a routing that followed the Midland main line north of Cheltenham was appreciably quicker than going via the 'Ports-to-Ports' route, particularly so far as the meandering section between Kings Sutton and Hatherley Jc. was concerned. I note that in the southbound direction the LMS portion departed York some 23 minutes after the 'Ports-to-Ports', but was only 5 behind when passing Lansdown Jc. just south of Cheltenham.

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strang steel
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by strang steel » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm

nutford wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm
strang steel wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
Rather you than me.... took 12 hours.....

12 hours on a train in the 1930s; sound good to me. I would have filled a spotting notebook in one day, judging by the route the train must have taken.
John

nutford
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by nutford » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:15 am

strang steel wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm
nutford wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm
strang steel wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
Rather you than me.... took 12 hours.....

12 hours on a train in the 1930s; sound good to me. I would have filled a spotting notebook in one day, judging by the route the train must have taken.
Ah - but that's NOW. Back then, 12 hours on that train would be the equivalent pleasure of 12 hours on say a trans-Penine 'express' today, but probably less comfortable.... But yes, a few sights on the way I'm sure!

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strang steel
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Re: What are these coaches....?

Post by strang steel » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:33 pm

I was assuming that I might get a compartment, and could wander up and down the corridor every couple of hours or so. I might even nod off between stations or junctions.
John

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