Please identify this box

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Mickey
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:36 pm

S&T wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:55 am
That same weekend I believe Ferme Park North Down and Honsey (no1) were also abolished. SN 75 also references the installation of the NX panel on FP platform 9&10 with some of the existing colour signals from FP3 & 5 transferred to the NX operation.
I believe I read somewhere S&T that Ferme Park North Down & Hornsey No.1 closed a year apart?. I believe Hornsey No.1 closed in December 1974 and Ferme Park North Down closed a year later in December 1975?.
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S&T
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by S&T » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:06 pm

That's interesting Mickey.
I was only going by the content of the SN. There's an assumption that the SN actually happened as planned etc.

Interested to hear if anyone has any further information or clarification on the abolishment dates for these boxes.

S&T

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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:25 pm

S&T wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:06 pm
That's interesting Mickey.
I was only going by the content of the SN. There's an assumption that the SN actually happened as planned etc.

Interested to hear if anyone has any further information or clarification on the abolishment dates for these boxes.
I have a feeling that both boxes did close a year apart but I'm not 100% certain though?. During the second half of 1974 and most of 1975 I was a secondman at Kings Cross and we had quite a few jobs back then taking ECS from Kings Cross out to Ferme Park carriage sidings as well as Bounds Green & Hornsey carriage sidings as well and I am fairly sure Ferme Park North Down was still open during 1975 because I had an interest in GN signalling and use to take notice of the boxes along the GN route and one day I did actually go up the box stairs to ask the signalman something but I can't remember if that was during the second half of 1974 or during 1975?.
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:45 pm

Regarding the closure of the 'temporary' Finsbury Park NX panel located in a 'portakabin' on platforms no.9 & no.10 closing in August 1976 that would coincide nicely with both Holloway South Down & Holloway North Down both closing on that date as well.

With regards to the 'temporary nature' of the signalling I presume that the method of communication between Holloway North Down-Finsbury Park NX panel-Wood Green NX panel was by the 'single stroke block bell' although the existing block bell 'tapper' would have remained in use at Holloway North Down but both the NX panels at Finsbury Park & Wood Green would have had the block bells located in the back of the panels with the block bell button to operate the block bells being flush towards the bottom of the panel just like it was at Welwyn Garden City. I doubt very much if train describers would have been provided in both Finsbury Park & Wood Green boxes just for 12-18 months before Kings Cross PSB took over the signalling.
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StevieG
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by StevieG » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:53 pm

Quick clarification request S&T.
Are you using "SN" to mean (Re-)Signalling Notice ? : Or as in the local WON which, sometime c.1968/9, after merger of BR's ER and NER, became redesignated from N to SN [presumably meaning South, 'Northern' lines (as in ex-GNR) ]; just as the 'GE's WON became the SE.
BZOH

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S&T
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by S&T » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:40 pm

Hi Steve,
Sorry....I'm a bit lazy with the term SN. I appreciate it has more than one meaning.
I was referring to the BR Eastern Region Supplementary Notice of Signalling Alterations. These have a reference number in a squared box in the top right hand corner of the front page. e.g. "Signalling Notice No.40".

Hope that clarifies.
S&T

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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 pm

I use to like those special signalling alteration notices that were sent out to drivers & guards and signal boxes back then because they were simple to read (they had to be) showing all the running lines through an area that was to have signalling alterations in the coming weeks which showed the track layout and all running line signals be it semaphore signals or colour light signals and if they were colour light signals if they were either controlled, semi-automatic or automatic and also ground disc signals and ground position light signals all with their signal numbers and any ground frames and so on.

At Welwyn Garden City box we had the Potters Bar-Hatfield diagram when Marshmoor box was closed in November 1972 also the Hawkshead-Hatfield-Welwyn Garden City diagram when Hatfield No.1 was closed in May 1973 and finally the Hatfield-Welwyn Garden City-Woolmer Green diagram when both Welwyn North & Woolmer Green boxes closed in September & October respectively in 1973 and the NX panel and multi-aspect colour light signalling was commissioned at WGC in September 1973. Thinking about it we may have also received the Woolmer Green-Langley Jn-Hitchin South diagram as well in early 1974?. I wish I had kept them.

Because those special signalling notices were published with a 'yellow paper cover' they are more commonly known as the "Yellow Peril" notice in railway circles possibly dating back to B.R. days I vaguely recall.
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StevieG
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by StevieG » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:19 pm

V. good S&T. I thought that might be the case.
BZOH

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Re: Please identify this box

Post by StevieG » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:39 pm

Mickey wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 pm
" ... Because those special signalling notices were published with a 'yellow paper cover' they are more commonly known as the "Yellow Peril" notice in railway circles possibly dating back to B.R. days I vaguely recall. ..."
.... except those Eastern Region ones of the 1960s & '70s had white covers Mickey. :) (Though those still in existence might well be rather yellow-ish by now.)
Those might even have continued white until sometime like creation of the BR Sectors like Network SouthEast; although the new BR Anglia Region's Supplementary Notices were yellow from the start, beginning with Liverpool St./ Bethnal Green in March 1989.

There were other exceptions as well. E.g. I think the Western's had a pale green cover around the time of their 1960s resignallings.
BZOH

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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:08 am

StevieG wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:39 pm
Mickey wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 pm
" ... Because those special signalling notices were published with a 'yellow paper cover' they are more commonly known as the "Yellow Peril" notice in railway circles possibly dating back to B.R. days I vaguely recall. ..."
.... except those Eastern Region ones of the 1960s & '70s had white covers Mickey. :) (Though those still in existence might well be rather yellow-ish by now.)
Those might even have continued white until sometime like creation of the BR Sectors like Network SouthEast; although the new BR Anglia Region's Supplementary Notices were yellow from the start, beginning with Liverpool St./ Bethnal Green in March 1989.

There were other exceptions as well. E.g. I think the Western's had a pale green cover around the time of their 1960s resignallings.
You are probably correct Stevie but I may have been confusing the 'yellow cover' with signalling alteration publications from the 1980s onwards but I don't recall the 'white' covers publications during the early 1970s I always thought they were yellow but that don't mean to say they wasn't white?.
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:21 am

Finsbury Park No.1 the 'outpost of empire' didn't know much about this box as it was tucked away on the Up & Down Canonbury lines and worked with Canonbury Junction box on the North London Railway and to Finsbury Park No.2 on the Down Canonbury line and Finsbury Park No.4 on the Up Canonbury line as well as Ashburton Grove box on the Up & Down Goods lines and was only glimpsed from passing trains on the running lines in & out of Kings Cross from a distance and then only for about two seconds only!.
Ashburton Grove a nice little 15 lever frame box with a GNR track diagram and located be side the Up & Down Goods lines and Down Canonbury line and worked either side with Finsbury Park No.1 & Finsbury Park No.2 as well as with Holloway North Up until 1970 over the Up Carriage line after which with Holloway South Up box and controlled the entrance & exit to Ashburton Grove rubbish sidings and the legendary 'Creep up' engine & carriage line towards Holloway North Up box until 1970 after which with Holloway South Up box.
Finsbury Park No.2 not a bad looking box when seen from a distance from a passing train along the main running lines between Holloway & Finsbury Park and located very close to Finsbury Park diesel depot (Clarence yard) and worked with Holloway North Down box on the Down Goods & Carriage lines and towards Finsbury Park No.3 and Ashburton Grove box as well it also controlled the Down Canonbury line from Finsbury Park No.1 to Finsbury Park No.3 as well as Goods & Carriage lines through that area.
Finsbury Park No.3 signalled the Down lines only from Holloway North Down and worked with both Finsbury Park No.2 & Finsbury Park No.5 at the north end of the station and was a bit of a heavy box to work with a lot of track work out side the box and controlled the entrance & exit to Western sidings and Clarence yard diesel depot as well as having a box lad to do the booking and telephone work.
Finsbury Park No.4 signalled the Up lines only and worked with Finsbury Park No.6 at the north end of the station and with Holloway North Up to the south until 1970 after which it worked with Holloway South Up box. The box had a nice array of semaphore 'directing signals' standing right outside the box and it controlled the connection to the Up Canonbury line towards Finsbury Park No.1 plus connections to the Up Goods & Up Coal lines heading south towards Holloway North Up until 1970 after which with Holloway South Up box.
Finsbury Park No.5 signalled all the Down lines only from Finsbury Park No.3 towards Harringay (passenger) box on the Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines & Ferme Park South Down on the Down Goods line and a lot of 'glory' was attached to working this box and was a personal favourite and it also had a connection to Finsbury Park No.7 on the Down Edgware branch.
Finsbury Park No.6 signalled all the Up lines only from both Harringay (passenger) box the Up fast & Up slow lines & Harringay Up Goods box the Up Goods no.1 & Up Goods no.2 lines towards Finsbury Park No.4 at the south end of the station and was another favourite box which also controlled the entrance & exit to GB Up carriage sidings and also the connection off of the Up Edgware branch from Finsbury Park No.7 and also had a box lad to handle the telephone and telegraph work as well as the booking.
Finsbury Park No.7 was tucked away out of sight on the Edgware branch north of Finsbury Park station and wasn't usually seen by trains passing through Finsbury Park along any of the running lines with the box working with both Finsbury Park No.5 (Down line) & Finsbury Park No.6 (Up line) and with Park Junction at Highgate on the London Underground part of the Northern line of L.T..
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StevieG
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by StevieG » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:24 pm

S&T,
While 'archive'-delving for something else, have discovered my list of date/times that KX PSB signal panels' interlockings were 'signed in' to KX (& so the signalman there actually took over responsibility from the temporary panels ; implying that that was when the latter ceased to be block posts and their panels' status became that of satellite / emergency).
These details were noted by me in 1979/80 from each panel's Occurrence Books, and I list them in chronological order. :

Gordon Hill and Hertford; 21.45, 04 July 1975.
Holloway, Fins.Park, and Wood Green; 09.54, 09.52, 09.49 respectively, 08 Aug. 1976.
New Barnet; 05 Sept. 1976 (believe actually 08.20, 04 Sept. 1976).
Welwyn Garden City; 09.15, 26 Sept. 1976.
Hitchin and Biggleswade; 19.25, 16 Jan. 1977.
Royston; 09.00, 05 Feb. 1977.
Also, in the KX interlocking area, 'sign-ins' :
Platforms 4-6 and the Slows and No.1 Fast (and presumably 7-10); 03.15, 07 Mar. 1977.
Platforms 1-3 and No.2 Fast; 12.28, 30 Mar. 1977.
East Sidings and Spur; 01 Apr. 1977.

Hope this is of interest and help.
BZOH

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S&T
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by S&T » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:03 pm

Thanks Steve,
That's most interesting and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to post that.
S&T

Mickey
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by Mickey » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:24 am

I have never been inside the current Kings Cross PSB although I have been told it isn't that spacious on the operating floor and I presume the building will remain long after the signalling facilities have been transferred to York.
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StevieG
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Re: Please identify this box

Post by StevieG » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:39 pm

S&T,
StevieG wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:24 pm

"... Gordon Hill and Hertford; 21.45, 04 July 1975. ..."
Holloway, Fins.Park, and Wood Green; 09.54, 09.52, 09

Re the above GH & Hert. North date, thanks to a query by Dave Cockle, I think I made an error with "1975", which is more likely to have been the quoted time/date/month but in 1976, (though I am trying to cross-check, to be more sure).
BZOH

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