A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

This forum is for the discussion of the locomotives, motive power, and rolling stock of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard

User avatar
NZRedBaron
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:58 am

A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by NZRedBaron »

So, I'm looking at my plans for my layout, "Trenholme Junction", and I'm thinking about where it's located- up in East Anglia, not far from King's Lynn, some time before WWII- there's some background fluff that explains that for an obscure reason, the permanent way on that line was laid to RA9 standard, so that big stuff (A1's, A3's, V2's and more) are able to run there.

I'm also looking at Fox Transfers, and thinking about a small kitbash idea I had for once I've finished my parcels vans; specifically, taking a Hornby RR Flying Scotsman, and renumbering/renaming it to another engine, to go alongside my model of Royal Lancer..

Question is, were there any A1's and A3's that spent the whole inter-war period either at King's Cross, or at a shed somewhere in the area that means they'd be plausible to see at Trenholme Junction? I know that Merry Hampton, for one example, is out of the question, as she spent her time up in Scotland until 1950.

Anyone able to suggest a good engine?
Seagull
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:15 pm
Location: Between a cheap railway station and a ploughed field

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by Seagull »

Two engines went to KX district from new and spent nearly their entire lives there.

4475 Flying Fox - 4476 Royal Lancer

4472 Flying Scotsman was there from new until moving to Doncaster in March 1939, though did have short periods away for exhibitions and trials.

I have information for for a few others allocated to KX district as follows;- (My notes run Jan 1937 - Sep 1939)

A1
2546 Donovan Jan 37 - Jun 39
2552 Sansovino Jan 37 - Jun 39
2561 Minoru Jan 37 - Sep 39
2562 Isinglass Apr 38 - Sep 39

A3
2744 Grand Parade Jan 37 - Jun 37 (I think she was at KX from new in late 1928)
2750 Papyrus Jan 37 - Aug 37

The following A1s from the first batch 4478, 4479 & 4480 and from the second (Doncaser built) batch of A1s 2545, 2548, 2549, 2550, 2551, 2554, 2556, 2557, 2558, 2560 and 2561(before it went to KX) were at Grantham for much of the time from new until mid 1939. So any of them would be options.

The remaing A3s were allocated to Doncaster or further north, though you could claim a running in turn from Doncaster if you have a particular favourite.

Alan
Playing trains, but trying to get serious
Hatfield Shed
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by Hatfield Shed »

That's reality.

The other approach is to consider that adding a new RA9 route and the requirement for pacific power on some services on that route is a fiction, and therefore alternatives to reality are possible. All sorts of possibilities in how far you move towards fiction, including building and naming a couple more for the work ; personally I'd just decide on a couple of names I like the most and allocate those. But nothing preventing you operating 'Bedford Levels' and 'Vermuyden'...
silverfox
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by silverfox »

Don't forget that KX used to send pacifics to Cambridge after overhaul. ( Not sure if they used any foreign ones on this jolly that csame down from Doncaster after a heavy overhaul before sending them home)
User avatar
NZRedBaron
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:58 am

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by NZRedBaron »

silverfox wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:30 pm Don't forget that KX used to send pacifics to Cambridge after overhaul. ( Not sure if they used any foreign ones on this jolly that csame down from Doncaster after a heavy overhaul before sending them home)
Wait, really? That's practically a hop, skip and jump away from King's Lynn; I was worried that I'd have to do a lot more handwaving than that.
User avatar
NZRedBaron
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:58 am

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by NZRedBaron »

Hatfield Shed wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:55 pm That's reality.

The other approach is to consider that adding a new RA9 route and the requirement for pacific power on some services on that route is a fiction, and therefore alternatives to reality are possible. All sorts of possibilities in how far you move towards fiction, including building and naming a couple more for the work ; personally I'd just decide on a couple of names I like the most and allocate those. But nothing preventing you operating 'Bedford Levels' and 'Vermuyden'...
Hmmmnn..... were there any gaps in the numbering for A1's or A3's?
Hatfield Shed
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by Hatfield Shed »

Gaps in the numbering were always freely available until Thompson's introductions of systematic schemes from 1946 which brought about logical order. A little research may may well find vacant numbers at the ends of the small number blocks allocated to the A1 and A3 builds.
But for the bulk of the LNER's existence you can have pretty much any number you like that wasn't on another locomotive! (Very handy if you have deviant thoughts such as 'what if HNG had gone in with Stanier on a steam turbine loco, and equipped an A4 that way?'.
silverfox
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by silverfox »

NZ

I think Tommy Knox is a member of this forum and has zillions of pacific workings from 1922 to 1966
If you ask him nicely he might come up with some Pacific workings to Cambridge
User avatar
strang steel
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2287
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: From 40F to near 82A via 88C

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by strang steel »

NZRedBaron wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:36 pm
silverfox wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:30 pm Don't forget that KX used to send pacifics to Cambridge after overhaul. ( Not sure if they used any foreign ones on this jolly that csame down from Doncaster after a heavy overhaul before sending them home)
Wait, really? That's practically a hop, skip and jump away from King's Lynn; I was worried that I'd have to do a lot more handwaving than that.
They certainly did post WW2, and not always their own locos, so why not pre-war? I have a photo of 60024 'Kingfisher" at Cambridge on August 1st 1949. 60024 was a Scottish loco for much of its life, and I wonder how excited the Cambridge spotters were at the time?
John. My spotting log website is now at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/
User avatar
NZRedBaron
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:58 am

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by NZRedBaron »

Well then; I just saw a second-hand model of Gladiateur on display, and I'm curious, did she ever get down to Grantham or to 'the Cross', or did she spend her life further north?
rockinjohn
H&BR Q10 0-8-0
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 am

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi not sure where 60029 Woodcock was shedded?but saw it to my surprise, in a sad state on an up on a coal train KX MPD?in aug '57/58? so not running in,& did A4's did get to Cambridge, KIngs Lynn er..no but yes( little brit.) &not on the "CBE" awaiting works/fill in maybe?rgds jj
silverfox
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by silverfox »

The only A3s i did not see go through Wood Green during the period 58-62 were

35/7/41/3/57/68/79/89/93-98/100

other classes were
A4 4 but jury is still out on that as i didnt see the number but got confirmation by a woman who was standing at WG watching with her son

A1 116 152 159-62

A2 507/9/10/19/25/8/9/31/4/5/6/7
rockinjohn
H&BR Q10 0-8-0
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 am

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi an after thought, seem to remember a picture somewhere of an A4 @Cambridge with a haul of articulated suburban stock in tow in BR times mid- '50's doubly strange, dont think it was a Scottish class member so modellers can make what you wish of it without guilt, it happened!.jj
69530
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by 69530 »

Fascinating reply from Silver Fox as from early '56 to mid '61 I spent 60% of my spotting time at Woodgreen, 20%at Hornsea, and 20% at Northumberland Park.

My results are very similar as below:

Five less A3's but also 60087, and 60100 ex works,

Incidentally late one Sunday afternoon cycling home on the North Circular Road from a West London shed bash, just before I cycled under the tunnel at New Southgate, 60087 passed over heading South, it did not seem to be ex-works.

A4 the same, I never knew anybody that saw 60004 after '56. Endless sightings of 60011 and 60027 on the Elizabethan.

A1 The same but 60160 was seen ex-works.

A2 The same again but 60536 seen ex-works.

I never saw any of the Carlisle Canal or Neville Hill Pacifics, and Named V2's always avoided me, apart from 60800.

I did see in 1956 a new England Ivatt 2-6-0 once, and in early '57, within half an hour of each other 2xJ39,s heading South on passenger trains, memory fades but I think they were from 36A

A question, did 52B locos have any workings into London ?
User avatar
NZRedBaron
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:58 am

Re: A1/3 Allocations at "Top Shed" and others

Post by NZRedBaron »

So, on the subject, I found that Grantham is geographically quite close to where Trenholme Junction would be (certainly closer than King's Cross, Doncaster or Gorton), and now I feel erked about no one actually mentioned these facts.
Post Reply