Hello,
I'm new here, and became member just to post the following Facebook-message.
Something 'LNER' was found in the ground near Antwerp (big road construction works for 'Oosterweel'.
Hopefully, with the few pictures, someone will be able to tell what this is (or was...) And how it got there...
If not, go to Facebook and search for 'Oosterweelverbinding'.
Translation of the message you will find there (message from today):
Archaeologists from the City of Antwerp made a special revelation at the Oosterweel junction site. During excavations at the North Castle, they discovered a large train set that was almost 100 years old!
The wagon was dug into the Noordkasteelwal and through the inscriptions they were able to determine that it dates from the 1930s! So you see: even history has a place on our yards.
I did found one picture on eBay however: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/295348514952
Comments made on the FB-item also mention some interesting information in English.
I already got more info, unfortunately not so good. The item was too far gone to be preserved. So pictures were made by the archeological team
Archaeologists from the city of Antwerp made a special revelation at the yard of the Oosterweel junction. During excavations at the North Castle, they discovered a large train set that was almost 100 years old. The historic wagon was completely dug into the Noordkasteelwal, and through the inscriptions they were able to determine that it dates from the 1930s.
After investigation it turned out that this was a wagon of a train set of the 'conflat, red oxide' type. The wagon was dug into the embankment and had inscriptions such as '…NITURE REMOVAL TO HOUSE', 'Enquire at any station', 'BK 1820' and 'LNER'. It remains a mystery how the train ended up in Antwerp and why it was buried. It may have been used as a storage space when the North Castle became a recreational spot.
Unfortunately, it soon became apparent that the old train carriage was so fragile that it was impossible for the archaeologists to recover the find. That is why a lot of footage was made, so that everyone can enjoy the special find. You can view more photos via this <link... see above>.
Origin train
In the early 19th century, simple square boxes were used in England for rail transport. Railroad companies quickly switched to standardized containers that were easier to load and unload.
The first model of LNER (London North Eastern Railway), one of the four English railway companies, was painted reddish brown around 1930. A few years later this color changed to the characteristic blue. The red container was only in use for a few years, which makes this find very rare.
BK1820 was to LNER Diagram 31. The first lot of 200 was built in 1938 and the second lot of 200, including BK1820, was built in 1940.
So it found its way to Antwerp either during the war, probably before Dunkirk, or post-1945. That was a frustrating house move for someone, possibly an attempted evacuation or repatriation?
65447 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:55 am
BK1820 was to LNER Diagram 31. The first lot of 200 was built in 1938 and the second lot of 200, including BK1820, was built in 1940.
Thanks for that info! The number on the container found in Antwerp is difficult to read (see link to the pictures in my previous post) but it seems to be 767 or something alike.
The picture showing the BK1820 is a picture that was for sale on eBay. I sent it to the Lantis group th show what they had found (even a Belgian newspaper reused that same picture, with the copyright watermark...)
The Antwerp container was found installed on a concrete slab (that can be seen also on the pictures), and probably was, when installed, half imbedded in a sand wall. On that location there was a recreational park (large swimming area) from 1934 until 1972, in the waters surronding an old fortress. And it might be that the container was used as a shed or storage for the person selling the parking tickets for the bicycle parking...
After 1972 the recreation park was erased due to expansion of the Antwerp harbour. The part, where the container was found recently remained untouched until now, and was a park-zone. Now, a part of that park dissapears for a new tunnel under the river Schelde.
I received a photo more in detail from the archeologic team that found and studies the container.
So the number is BK769.
@65447:
Is this first or second lot? And what stands 'BK' for?
Last edited by stefanic on Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
B is the size, basically a full size container rather than an A which was half the size. K means it was for furniture, C was for cycles, M for meat and D general merchandise.
Thanks for this information!
Little deviation on the side: Can anyone give me the general dimensions of such a container? I'm currently making an Antwerp docks layout (1/32 scale) picturing the 1950s, and such a container would be a special addition 'with a story'.
stefanic wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:54 am
... Can anyone give me the general dimensions of such a container? I'm currently making an Antwerp docks layout (1/32 scale) picturing the 1950s, and such a container would be a special addition 'with a story'.
External dimensions.
Length, 16 feet 5 inches, 5m, Width 7 feet 8 inches, 2,34m, height to top of roof 7 feet 7 inches, 2,31m, height to top of door opening 6 feet 3 inches 1,91m . No dimension for roof radius.
There is a book with more information including photographs to show exterior detail, with a good monochrome photo of BK690 as constructed.
LNER Wagons vol. 4B. Author Peter Tatlow. ISBN 978 0 953877 119 Pub. Wild Swan Books Ltd.
Thanks!
Is "LNER Wagons: An Illustrated Overview by Peter Tatlow" a valid alternative?
I found also this usefull page https://igg.org.uk/rail/5-unit/unitload1.htm with info on dimensions
And eBay has some nice pictures for sale.
I do not know if buying a book can still add more information. Some general dimensions and some pictures are a good base to start building...
Great! Thanks!
Another observation: On a previous picture shown here (from ebay, BK1820) main lettering 'house to house' goes top-left to bottom-right (and door is on the left end). On the last picture BK664 (door at the right end) this lettering is bottom-left to top-right!
It seems direction of lettering was (probably) always the same per container, but some series were bottom-left - top-right on both sides, and other series were the other version.
On the found remains of container BK769, lettering was top-left to bottom-right on both sides, but still in the same diagram 23...
