Memories

This forum is for the discussion of all railway subjects that do not include the LNER, and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard

User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: All over Australia

Re: Memories

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Flamingo, I can't help you with any details about the V1/V2 incident at Palmers Green, I can help you with what hit the ground, right a V1 or 'Doddlebug' was powered by a ram jet which would fly at around 400MPH and carried only enough fuel for say 125 miles, when the fuel ran out thr pilotless V1 would crash to the ground, because they travelled in a straight line at a fairly low altitude they could be tracked by radar, they could also be shot down by anti aircraft guns or fighters,V2's on the other hand were a full blow rocket, I believe they could travel at over 1,000MPH and carried a one ton payload, being so fast they hit the ground before they were heard, any bomb including V1/V2's hitting a softish patch earth will sometimes bury deep into the ground before exploding and not showing a great deal of damage to the surrounding area, more V2's hit in North London than in the south, but More V1's hit in south and central London than in the north, two V2's are known to have hit in Gladstone Ave, Wood Green & Park Road, Hornsey, easy to see, there the new blocks of flats in an older area of housing, in those two case's the area of devastation was huge.

The best V2 had 'Green Arrow' on the smoke box.

Now who remembers the open day, at Noel Park goods yard, around about 1959,ish that was the only time I was legally in Noel Park goods yard???? I can remember 'Mallard' I got to walk through the corridor tender like hundreds of others! I also remember the J52 and the C12, wish that had been preserved as well :cry: and you could have a ride on the steam crane for 3d, ( up, round and down), but what else was there, was there a class 40????
manna
Last edited by manna on Thu May 27, 2010 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
User avatar
Flamingo
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:23 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Memories

Post by Flamingo »

manna wrote:G'Day Gents

Now who remembers the open day, at Noel Park goods yard, around about 1959,ish that was the only time I was legally in Noel Park goods yard???? I can remember 'Mallard' I got to walk through the corridor tender like hundreds of others! I also remember the J52 and the C12, wish that had been preserved as well :cry: and you could have a ride on the steam crane for 3d, ( up, round and down), but what else was there, was there a class 40????
manna
Ah yes, I remember it well!

I didn't even know Noel Park had a goods yard until that event. It must have been on a much lower level than the running tracks because Noel Park station itself was built next to the bridge over Wood Green High Road. Shunting that goods yard must have been quite interesting if the approach was on a steep gradient. The yard would have been mainly used for local house coal traffic I reckon, every North London house in those days had coal fires for heating. That was what caused the fog which prevented me from seeing the last Ivatt Atlantic.

Palmers Green also had a small goods yard with 3 or 4 sidings, it was on the up side south of the station, so I suppose the goods trains used to come in from the Hertford direction and reverse into the goods yard. I remember watching Hornsey J6's shunting at PG, 64233 and 64256 were the usual ones but there were others which I don't recall.

Anyway back to the Noel Park event. I still have the official programme and here's the cover of it:
Programme for the Noel Park exhibition in September 1958
Programme for the Noel Park exhibition in September 1958
As to the locos present, yes Mallard was there and the programme also lists a J52 ( I think it was 68846), a C12 (that was 67352, quite a shock to see one of this class back in London after many years), a 9F 2-10-0 (can't remember which one), a Type 4 D200 class (Hornsey had a few when they were new), a 350-hp shunter (can't remember which one) and D5300 (Sulzer Type 2. Plus a DMU and several coaches, wagons and small exhibits.

I thought you might like to see this picture:
Anyone recognise themselves? Not you Manna is it?
Anyone recognise themselves? Not you Manna is it?
hq1hitchin
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:32 pm
Location: Newbury, Berks

Re: Memories

Post by hq1hitchin »

Flamingo wrote:[quote="hq1hitchin

Speaking of Gerry rockets, can anyone tell me more about the incident when a rocket landed on the line close to my local station (Palmers Green) on 26/10/1944? It landed about 100 yards beyond the end of the platforms in the Winchmore Hill direction and there was a train there at the time. I've seen pictures of the crater it made, not that big really and neither was the damage in Devonshire Road which was right next to the station. It was recorded as a German V2 rocket rather than a flying bomb but I've often wondered about that. How would they know which sort it was when it all happened after dark?
Gets a mention in by Rail to Victory (the official war story of the LNER), Flamingo, but only a mention and I've never heard details of the incident, either. At Kings Cross station, I think they have just got round to restoring the damage to the West Side offices recieved on the night of May 10/11th 1941, during an air raid.
A topper is proper if the train's a non-stopper!
User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: All over Australia

Re: Memories

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
Famingo
Thanks for the info on Noel Park open day,sorry to say, neither of those young lads was me, but about the right age, I would have only been 7 1/2 at the time, dressed in a dark green jumper and tan shorts, but was allowed to roam around and go to events like the open day, would that be allowed in todays climate, I think not.

I bought up Noel Park goods yard because it was our local adventure park??? it had brake vans to explore 5 and 7 plank wagons to climb over, buffer stops to swing on, it was also where there were stacked piles of sewer pipes, the pottery type, with straw between them, and although it was a big yard, in all the years that I lived in Wood Green, I never ever saw a loco in the yard??saw the local trains go by, even travelled on the local train to Palace Gates, never saw any loco's in that yard, but we knew that it was still being used, the wagons were moved, brake vans would disappear only to reappear a week later on a different siding, never saw anyone there either, so we never got kicked out either.
Hitchin,
The bit that got bombed at Kings Cross, was it made into a left luggage office ???
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
hq1hitchin
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:32 pm
Location: Newbury, Berks

Re: Memories

Post by hq1hitchin »

manna wrote:G'Day Gents
Hitchin,
The bit that got bombed at Kings Cross, was it made into a left luggage office ???

It was the bit of the West side offices above the old booking office. When the bombs fell, they hit the RTO, a military travel office, and killed ten soldiers, I think. The missing offices were never replaced, until recently, I believe. Haven't been to KX since last April, so would need to go and have another look. It was the same when Hamilton House at Liverpool st got bombed, there was a great chunk missing from that until it was demolished many years later. Incidentally, I remember the Yank at Highbury Vale, but can't recall his proper name. Do you remember the dirty one in Wood Green 2, - the smell when he was on was so bad that, when a handsignalman was once required to stay in the box, he slid a window open and sat with his head sticking out of the window. The bloke wasn't a very good signalman either, and when that little panel went in there when Cemetery closed, he was lost. Time for him to get taken out. Wood Green 4 was a smart box but it shook so much when a liner train went by up the fast, I used to think that we would be taking off and following it one day :)
A topper is proper if the train's a non-stopper!
User avatar
R. pike
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 765
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: just off the GN mainline
Contact:

Re: Memories

Post by R. pike »

I remember stopping to show my kids where the new roof trusses are at King's Cross and pointing at them and explaining the differences between old and new. Within a few seconds i had a crowd all looking too. Someone commented that they had never noticed or even known about the bomb damage..
hq1hitchin
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:32 pm
Location: Newbury, Berks

Re: Memories

Post by hq1hitchin »

A little tribute to all those railwaymen and women who had a very hard time in the last war
Attachments
and still.jpg
and still.jpg (33.13 KiB) Viewed 8187 times
A topper is proper if the train's a non-stopper!
User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: All over Australia

Re: Memories

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
Great memories coming in folks.
R Pike, love that little story, Is it a bird???
Hitchin, Never had the need to go into Wood Green No2, lucky a! was No 2 at the end of the down platform or the up?? I've seen the picture of the N2 covered in rubble at Kings Cross that's got to be the same incident, the yank had fair hair if I remember rightly?
When I use to go to Wood Green station to do a bit of spotting I/we use to try and find a different vantage point, so here's a new one, gone today though.After arrival at Wood Green station we carried on over the road bridge and turned right, which today is called Palace Gates Rd, I thought it had a different name then?? ah well, after turning into said road we use to turn right again down a carriageway next to a greengrocers, when you got to the end you had a good view of Bounds Green Carriage sidings, it was a whole new vista, there was a low (4ft ) sleeper fence and a (5ft) brick wall to sit on,but after a while you would get a bit cold as you were always in shadow, so we started to jump down onto the side of the cutting, then it was a case of a little bit more, we started to sit on the cutting wall, on the BG side of the bridge, which again afforded a wonderful view of everything, now where we were sitting was right next to the old goods line, so every so often a WD would very close by and then clank off down the track, so being what we were we started to walk along the cutting side towards Wood Green tunnel, this goods track went round the back of the Hertford flyover, in a cutting, this was known as 'The Kyber Pass' To the local enginemen (see sketch below) we, in the end started to sit on the retaining wall just past the Hertford flyover, and opposite the Roundtrees warehouse, that bit of track was permissive block, so there was often more than one train on that bit of line, quite often we would sit there chatting to the footplate crews, on there WD's,they were there some times for half hour or more,we would be watching there every move, the fireman putting a round of coal in the box, the driver with lump of cotton waste in his hand, wiping it on the brake handle, without knowing he did it, and all the time that wonderful smell of coal smoke and steam drifting around your bare legs, the little things like the hiss of the steam, the scrape of a shovel as the fireman puts another on in the firebox, sometimes the guard of the train in front was only a few feet away from the WD, so he would join in as well, then you would hear the loco on the first train give a pop on the whistle, then a clonk, clonk, clonk all the way down the wagons as he pulled away and into Wood Green tunnel, at the same time our? train would start to move up,thedrivers would often say ' bye son' more clonking,we were still sitting there waiting for the next one, sometimes we had to move position, to be next to the loco maybe a K3 or a Gresley 2-8-0 even a Green Arrow. Now there's a lost sound, starting and stopping a loose coupled goods train?? some drivers were so gentle in getting there trains away, but others?? the guard would be flying around his van?
There was a added advantage to sit where we sat, behind us were allotments! when you felt hungry there was always, blackberries, blackcurrants, gooseberries etc etc YUM??
One day as a dare (Stupid I know) I sat in the sand bin (as marked on the map) as a down express went by, the noise to me was incredible, the view fantastic, it was either 60010 or 60012, but I never did it again? :lol:
Attachments
Wood Greens Kyber Pass.jpg
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
giner
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:17 am
Location: Alberta - ex. Stevenage

Re: Memories

Post by giner »

Great stuff, again, manna. You mentioning boyhood games (sometimes a bit dangerous, I know) reminded me of how we used to sit on the parapet of Norton Green Lane bridge at the north end of Langley troughs with our legs dangling. Then comes a down express just about filled up and the tank cap not secured resulting in a good fountain of water. This, hitting the arch of the bridge at 80 mph, would send a huge burst of water up and all over us - just the ticket on a hot summer day.

By the short embankment on the up side there was a field where there were always a couple of goats. We were so intent on watching the line that one day I didn't notice a goat had chewed a hole in the back of my jumper. My mum went nuts.

Another silly game was running out and putting a penny on the line to get it flattened by a train. Of course, at that time Stevenage station was still a couple of miles down the line, so no chance of being seen. Happy days, indeed.
User avatar
Flamingo
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:23 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Memories

Post by Flamingo »

There were sights to be seen on that Wood Green flyover. With their 14-coach empty stock trains from KX and provided they got a run at the climb the N2s would just about manage it at walking pace. But if they got stopped back near Waterworks sidings they would often get stuck, just stalled through lack of tractive effort. The L1s had the right TE for the job but actually were little better because they slipped so easily. The J50s seemed to cope best.

One memorable evening I stayed out late down at Finsbury Park because there was a rumour that a rare A3 was in town and it was likely to come out on one of the evening trains, possibly on a down sleeper. The A3 concerned was either Colorado or my namesake, both seldom seen in the south. I waited and waited on FP platforms but no sign of the alleged rarity. Yet again it was getting foggy and as the time for the last Hertford local approached I had to abandon the fruitless vigil. That local had the usual 2 quad-art formation but it turned out to be surprisingly full with folk returning home after going to West End shows probably. I don't think they'd all been after the rare Pacific. Anyway it was so full I had to ride in the guard's brake compartment. The N2 up front made very heavy weather of Wood Green flyover and we just about crawled over the bridge with the guard shining his lamp out of the window to let the crew know we were still moving.

Another day a 9F on empty wagons Ferme Park to New England was routed via the Hertford Loop. Not unknown but the driver probably wasn't that used to going that way. They took things too easily and never made it past the bridge over the main line tracks. It wasn't a wet day or anything else that might have made the rails slippery, but that 9F just stood there slipping continuously and spectacularly for several minutes as if it was on the stationary test plant at Rugby or Swindon. I bet they had to replace a rail or two after that display.
chaz harrison
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:35 am

Re: Memories

Post by chaz harrison »

Putting pennies on the line?

I remember running out on to the line between Hatfield and WGC and putting a dead pheasant on the metals, only I mistimed it. I must have shocked the driver of the approaching Deltic, he certainly scared me with a long blast on the horns. The stupidity of youth.

Seeing mention of the exhibition at Noel Park brought to mind an exhibition that Dad and I went to. It must have been in the London area but I don't know where.
Anyway there is a careful list written in the back of my copy of "The Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives".
viz
71000
60022
1000 (Midland Compound)
D28
E5014
GT3
D6553
D867
92220
D9003
D7000
D5699
D8400
E3059
Anybody know where and when from this list?
It wasn't the Noel Park bash as no saddle tank or C12
Chaz
User avatar
Flamingo
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:23 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Memories

Post by Flamingo »

chaz harrison wrote:Putting pennies on the line?

Seeing mention of the exhibition at Noel Park brought to mind an exhibition that Dad and I went to. It must have been in the London area but I don't know where.
Anyway there is a careful list written in the back of my copy of "The Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives".

Anybody know where and when from this list?
It wasn't the Noel Park bash as no saddle tank or C12
Chaz
.
Hmm quite a puzzler, don't recall that open day at all. Location in the south is likely because of the Warship and Hymek. We can pin the date down a bit though because the Deltic would have been delivered in about mid-1961 while 71000 and GT3 were both withdrawn by the end of 1962. So the event must have been sometime within a period of about 18 months. I saw 71000 in service in July 1962 and it looked rather dirty and in a pretty poor state, so I doubt they would have bulled it up for an open day much later than that date.
User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: All over Australia

Re: Memories

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
Pennies on the line, alright for you rich,--- 'us poor kids from Norf Lundun' all we could afford was a dead mouse, not much left after a 08 went over it?? Who did'n't do that,I did'n't mint pennies, but chair screws? hit one of those at St Neots, it went off like a bullet, landed at least 200ft away, even a small bird makes a big bang, now heres a bigger bang?
A quick way of getting from Kings Cross to Hornsey carriage sidings is to use the flyover at Hornsey, that's the way we were rostered to go, we went into the Hornsey Flyover siding to change ends, only we did'n't, we propelled out loco 31 212 over the flyover,with me driving, we observed all signals,but failed to notice 31 403 standing in Harringay reversing sidings resulting in a collision, now I know we should have changed ends, but? we'd both done it dozens of times, nothing new, this day it was 2145 in July, very hazy, just getting dark and with the crew of the other engine changing ends, there was no red tail light, big yellow end or not neither of us saw it sitting there, after the bang and the shock of hitting something that we did'n't know was there, we both looked at each other, we were both sitting on the back of the chair with our feet on the seat part??? 'what did we hit' ??we got off the engine and looked back, there was the other engines driver walking back to us, bag in hand, his loco 30ft away, we had stopped about where we wanted to, but his engine was already there, we'd knocked the other loco that far,then the other secondman stuck his out of the cab ' Aw s*** I was in the engine room I went flying' We then checked each other out, nothing broken,only a very pair of dented ego's, then we looked at the engines, they both looked like Concord sitting on the tarmac at Heathrow. It was then a case of getting on the phone to the signalman to let him know what was going on and to get the brakedown vans out, they arrived about an hour later, by then there was a nice crowd looking over the fence, even at that time of night, we were instructed to go to Kings Cross and report to the foreman, which we did, as it was almost the end of our shift we were told to go home, which we gratefully did, from what I heard later, the cabs on both loco's had to be jacked up and secured before they could be towed to Finsbury Pk depot, to be made ready for the trip to Doncaster. The depot manager gave me a right dressing down in his office, my driver got three days booked off duty :oops:
manna
Attachments
Oh Dear.jpg
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
simonh
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:52 pm
Location: Welwyn Garden City

Re: Memories

Post by simonh »

chaz harrison wrote: Anybody know where and when from this list?
It wasn't the Noel Park bash as no saddle tank or C12
Chaz
I think it was Marylebone 1961.

Just found a reference on the net, talking about 9003 on the Napier Chronicles site:

11-14.05.61, Exhibited at Marylebone station: Golden Jubilee of the Institution of Locomotive Engineers exhibition. Also present: Hymek D7000, 9F 92220 "EVENING STAR", MR class 4 1000 (Midland Railway Compound), Gas turbine GT3 and BR class 8 71000 "THE DUKE OF GLOUCESTER".

Simon.
chaz harrison
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:35 am

Re: Memories

Post by chaz harrison »

Simon,

Thanks for the info'. The date certainly sounds about right. (I would have been 12). Marylebone Station seems quite likely. My dad was a great one for days out, but we wouldn't have travelled further than London from WGC without my Mum in tow, and wild horses wouldn't have dragged her to such an event! If it was then the exhibits must have been in the yard, not the platform lines. My, admittedly hazy, memory is of walking around the exhibits at ground level rather than on platforms. Of course the station would have been working, with (occasional) trains passing to and fro, so this figures.

Looking at the list it is interesting to note that all four celeb' steam locos are still with us but most of the modern traction has gone....?

....and why would anyone mention the Hymek, but not No 22? Shame on them!

Chaz
Post Reply