Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

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Greedy Boards
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Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by Greedy Boards »

Hi All

have been carrying out some research in to Milk Tank traffic on the LNER, and can't find enough info, unless you're a GWR, or a LMS, or an SR fan! - The LNER seems to be less well covered compared to the other members of the Big Four in this aspect of freight transport.

The info that I have seems to indicate that most LNER milk tank traffic headed in to London from Great Eastern territory, but I don't know where the point of delivery was located. I know that Express Dairies had a considerably sized depot at Cricklewood near MR/LMS rails, and that United Dairies had a significant location in West London, on Tavistock Road, supplied by SR rails? BUT does anyone know which dairies brought milk in on LNER rails to London, and where?

I do know that Cow & Gate owned the Northallerton Dairy from 1931, but this dairy largely supplied the North East & West Riding, with only a small amount heading south to London. Cow & Gate merged with United Dairies in 1959, to form Unigate Dairies, but I can't find any info on where the milk tank wagons would have terminated in North London, ceratinly not in proximity to LNER rails.

Consequently if you can provide any info, then I would be very grateful, and if anyone knows what the Cow & Gate milk tank livery looked like in LNER days, or where I can find an example, then that would be the icing on the Christmas Cake!

Until then, a Happy Christmas to all involved with LNER Encyclopedia

Regards

Greedy Boards
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PaulG
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by PaulG »

Greedy Boards

I am building a 4mm model of Colchester c1950s, I have been collecting information on milk tank traffic in East Anglia for sometime.

United Daries had two collection points, North Elmham Norfolk and Halesworth Suffolk and forwarded tanks to their depot at Ilford.

If you send a pm I can send you further details if of interest.

Regards
Paul
2512silverfox

Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by 2512silverfox »

I do not pretend to be an expert in this area, but I am sure that some milk came into London via the Stafford/Derby branch, originally GN, but where it came to in London I cannot remember. It could be that my 1930s working TTs would give the answer.

The trains were originally GN bogie milk vans, but late in the 30s some tank traffic was added. I will have a look but do not rely too much on what I can find!
Greedy Boards
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by Greedy Boards »

Thanks to you both.

Will focus on the United Dairy in Ilford for now, but would be very interested in any further info on the dairy destination associated with GN metals, from us upt North!

Regards

Greedy Boards
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jwealleans
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by jwealleans »

Wasn't there a large dairy right beside Marylebone?
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52D
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by 52D »

Was the dairy at Northallerton responsibile for that favourite of Wallace and Gromit, Wensleydale or was that another dairy in the dale itself.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
Bryan
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by Bryan »

Wensleydale cheese is produced at Hawes.
Excellent cheese by the way.
and a very good restaurant.
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richard
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by richard »

Wensleydale has been made at quite a few dairies and mostly out of the dale, but if you find "proper" Wensleydale (rather than supermarket processed stuff) then it is probably from the dairies at Hawes - who also make the Wallace&Grommit branded version.
(restaurant was busy when I was there and they seriously oversalted my Welsh Rarebit)


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Bryan
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by Bryan »

Mind you the cheese is cheaper at the grocers shop on the main street rather than at the creamery shop.
scottiedog
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by scottiedog »

There was a milk traffic working from Northallerton to London - Finsbury Park in May 1932. The vehicles used were generally ex NER 6w vans. It was made up as follows Hawes dep 7.00am - 2 Milk Vans, + Askrigg dep 7.13am - 2 Milk Vans, + Leyburn dep 8.05 - 1 Milk Van, Northallerton dep 9.10am, Finsbury Park arr 2.55 pm.
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manna
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Finsbury Park, milk dock! was that on the Down side, where the Pullman coach sat for years ???

By the way, I wonder why they had a milk dock at Kings Cross ????????

manna
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gresleybear
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by gresleybear »

Hello. There is an excellent chapter in "The Great Central in LNER Days, Vol 2". that discusses this traffic. It originated primarily at the Dorrington Dairy in Shropshire, deep in GWR Territory, but also at Sanquhar in Dumfries-shire, served by the LMS. The trains were handed off to the LNER, bound for the IMS Depot next door to Marylebone. Hope this helps.

Forward!

John
Greedy Boards
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by Greedy Boards »

Hi All

many thanks for the posts so far, still hoping for any info on the Cow & Gate Dairies livery.

In regards to finding out where the final destination was for Northern milk coming in to London, I can't find any details on the web, of such a facility at the aforementioned Finsbury Park, certainly nothing that reflects the facilities detailed about Vauxhall on the south of the Thames. Ilford on the GER network cerainly seemed to benefit from both Expresss & United Dairies facilities; such a depot in proximity to Marylebone would have taken milk from the GCR network, especially from Ingestre on the Stafford-Derby branch-line. But what of the GNR?

However, I have been able to find out about a United Dairies Depot at East Finchley, which was located on the Edgeware, Highgate and London Railway, or Northern Heights Railway. This railway was taken over by the GNR and opened in 1867. It links Edgeware to the ECML & Finsbury Park, and was noted for its traffic of coal, building material and milk traffic, for the ever-increasing population of North London.

East Finchley had a large dairy established called Manor Farm Dairy, which was then taken over by United Dairies after WW1, and operated until closure in 1960. Info from The Finchley Societydescribes the operation as " . . . large quantities of milk in glass-lined railway tank wagons being brought in daily. The wagons were shunted in and out of the depot by a small petrol engined locomotive. The milk was bottled there and distributed by road to the surrounding areas. The site of the sidings is now the station car park and where the depot stood is housing and offices." Apparently the depot was converted to retail outlet(s) on the ground floor, with flats above. But the building still bears the original legend in the stonework of Manor Farm Dairy.

It could be that in the absence of info on such a facility at Finsbury Park, that the Northern LNER conveyed milk was then subsequently hauled to East Finchley for bottling thereafter.

Regards

Greedy Boards
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StevieG
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by StevieG »

manna wrote:G'Day Gents

Finsbury Park, milk dock! was that on the Down side, where the Pullman coach sat for years ???

By the way, I wonder why they had a milk dock at Kings Cross ????????

manna
Can't add to the King's Cross query (though, around 1969, the group of sidings serving various 'docks' west of 'platform' 17 was certainly known generally in the signal box as 'the milk yard').

Do know that, around 1968, that canopied 'dock'/platform, west of the Down Goods through Finsbury Park station (with one or two adjacent sidings extending via a small bridge over Wells Terrace and expanding into Lennox Road yard), was still used by MacFisheries (I think), and there was a freight trip to there from somewhere (KX Goods Yard?) which was therefore known definitely as 'the MacFish'.
Couldn't say if milk used to be handled at that platform : But mention of Fins.Park in this context has stirred a half memory that someone there may have told me that the non-public subway at the station's north end (of which there is these days, no evidence at all at platform level) may have been involved in handling milk traffic (churns?, presumably). This was north of the sub-rail level area beside the main public subway around the top of the spiral stairs down to the 'Tube's Piccadilly and 'Northern City' Lines (where there was what looked like a former small 'tube' booking office) and had, I seem to recall, not-particularly old-looking (1950s?) lift-housing structures at platform level [ One on the Up Fast/Up Slow island (Plats. 3 & 4 at the time), and one on the Down side - Plats. 5/6 I think (Down Fast/Down Slow No.1) ].

Given this subway's precise location (close to skewed under-Bridge 16; Stroud Green Road) and the physical street layout around the station, I think this subway could only have had Down side external access, on Wells Terrace.
I think this subway would have seen parcels at some periods, but this idea of milk traffic won't go away from my memory. I'll write again if I find anyone ex-staff who might recall for sure, one way or the other.

However I realise that this idea may not be seen as sitting well with :
- the previously mentioned E.Finchley milk siding (which I also recall passing many times on good 'ole 1938 Stock in the early '60s : - I think the siding's purpose for milk was, in some way less clear to me now, obvious, but I don't remember its appearance being such as to clearly indicate active use for that) ; - or
- this subway could only have been used for milk in some sort of containers which could be moved via a lift, but if it was, why would it be transported that way if milk tank vehicles were in use on the GN to London at the time?

[ P.S. Until only a few years ago, a small number of assorted vehicles had remained undisturbed in Wood Green 'Sand yard' (on the Up side just south of the station { now Alexandra Palace since the '80s } ) for a long time while the weeds and greenery grew up through the tracks and wheels, amongst which was one 6-wheel tank wagon of some sort :
Similarly there was one amongst a very few abandoned-looking vehicles in the dead end sidings on the east side of Cambridge station until they were removed (by road vehicle(s) I think) about 2-3 years ago prior to those sidings being lifted. ]
Last edited by StevieG on Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bryan
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Re: Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER

Post by Bryan »

The mention of "Milk Dock " reminds me that at Ferrybridge West Yorks.
At the point were the line splits into 3 for Sheffield, Knottingley and Pontefract.
There is the new signal box.
This location always used to be called Milk Dock.
Would there be a connection to London traffic?
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