2002's 4mm projects - Pacifics +

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Blink Bonny
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by Blink Bonny » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:36 pm

Ay up!

That looks soooooooooooo good.
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by Daddyman » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:34 pm

Alclad do a product called 'Klear cote gloss' which is lovely to use: www.alclad2.co.uk. Billed as a replacement for the much-mourned Johnson's Klear, which I've never used but I understand is very forgiving when brushed on, as is the Alclad (it's pre-thinned).
This would give your loco a nice exhibition shine and hide the marks on the tender.
For stripping RTR lettering/numbering I use Modelstrip on Bachmann, where it works brilliantly, but it tends to stain Hornby paintwork (especially LNER green!) or leave a ghost. Recently for Hornby I've used 1500 wet-and-dry paper (in wet mode) and then to hide the slight scuffs I've burnished the loco afterwards (another way of getting a good gloss finish, but more of a scruffy 'well-loved-but-knackered' look; I use an old sock [Sainsbury's 'Tu' range, if that's any help!], cotton wool buds and an old wedge-shaped 5mm paint brush - loading them all with satin black paint gives a nice effect too).
Take the sanding slowly - ten minutes is not too long to spend to not ruin a loco! - and mask the lining while you're working, especially if it's Bachmann, which will start coming off if you even open thinners in the same room!

mick b
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by mick b » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:46 pm

You can remove lettering with T Cut and a wood cocktail stick. The resultant shiny area is ok for decals straight away.
I finish my Locos with Games Workshop Satin if using over enamel paint I use a coat of Acrylic varnish first to protect the paint from reacting.
Fox do LNER Lining look at their Flying Scotsman listing . Very wide white areas & very expensive too.

I use HMRS witch matches Hornby lining.

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:26 pm

Great tips again chaps - thank you.

I actually have some Johnson's Klear which I used with some success doing the equivalent of renaming/renumbering on 1:72 scale diecast Spitfires. I never thought to bring techniques across from aircraft modelling to railways - silly me! Come to think of it, brushing it on rather than spraying didn't leave unsightly marks. I hope you will firstly forgive the image of a plane (but it IS a Spitfire!) and secondly agree that the model below (which started out as a Gemini Aces MkIX PK-E) still looks respectable with nose art added and a change of code, which necessitated blending in of touched-up camouflage etc.
IMG_7398.JPG
I haven't had the chance to pop out for Maskol yet and despite a search in the depths of the shed, I haven't found the Copydex that I thought I had, so I've spent hours (and still not quite finished) masking my Kingfisher body ready for spraying workshop grey to become Woodcock. All this detail on current models is great until you have to mask it off!

Empire Ex 4472 is on hold until I find a suitable tender - I'd rather not have to buy a whole J39! Fox GN lettering may solve my "SLEEPING CARRIAGE" rather than "sleeping car" problem. The two old books I've retrieved from the loft celebrating the life of King George V and the Silver Jubilee include plenty of photos of the Wembley exhibition but none of the Palace of Engineering which show 4472 from the side-on angle I need for the diorama base. Just have to keep searching...

Nice to have a few things on the go though at last!

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60800
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 60800 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:52 pm

A rather interesting picture of 4472 that I have just found. It is from 1924 and 4472 is pictured at Doncaster works. It is obviously in the condition it was in for the exhibition, but with a GN 8 wheel tender, instead of the K3 tender. Was the tender switched over in London, or before it left the plant?
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4472.jpg
36C - Based out of 50H and 36F

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:02 pm

Thanks Blackout - it's a cracking picture. I hope I understand things correctly but I think that it was possibly only at the 1925 exhibition that 4472 was coupled to a K3 tender and I'm not sure at what point it was attached.

There is a picture of Scotsman (minus tender) being pushed in to the hall by a GCR loco so they may have only coupled her to the K3 tender whilst in-situ?

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60800
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 60800 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:13 pm

2002EarlMarischal wrote:There is a picture of Scotsman (minus tender) being pushed in to the hall by a GCR loco
Anyone have a link for this piccie?
36C - Based out of 50H and 36F

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:42 pm

I've looked back through my LNER library and found some answers in "LNER Reflections" edited by Nigel Harris. There is a shot of 4472 (loco only) being pulled out of the Palace of Engineering by L1 2-6-4T 342 in November 1924. Whilst I've scanned this image I don't seem to be able to turn it into something small enough to add this post. :?

In 1925, 4472 was paired with a K3 tender due to restrictions on space caused by the decision to display a new 1st class sleeping car.

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All thumbs
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by All thumbs » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:13 am

Will these do?
FS_Wembley_1925_002.JPG
BBC Hulton Picture Library picture
The caption in LNER Reflections states that this was Flying Scotsman being removed after the closure of the 1924 British Empire Exhibition on 1 Nov 1924. The tender had already been removed and the loco doing the pulling was L1 2-6-4T 342 (later 5342) still in its GCR finery and then based at Neasden. Maybe you should do a deal with Mossie for his L3? :wink:
FS_Wembley_1925_003.JPG
BBC Hulton Picture Library picture
Here is Flying Scotsman at Wembley the following year (1925), now coupled to the ex-K3 GS tender with stepped coping.

I think you may have to roll 4472 back into the shops - that lubrication pipe under the handrail running the length of the boiler from a sight feed in the cab is very obvious. :( Also I reckon your model needs to lose both mechanical lubricators on the footplate behind the steam pipe retaining the one in front. Can anyone comment further e.g. would there have been a pipe on the other side of the boiler (under the exhaust ejector pipe?) as well with a similar arrangement on the footplate? Also how best to achieve the result? .010" x .030" or .040" microstrip plus fusewire? Would the exposed pipe on the smokebox have been burnished copper, brass or steel? It's one step forward and two back...

I'll PM you on another matter.
Be gentle! Returning to the hobby after more than 20 years away...

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:54 am

Now why couldn't I do that with the pics? Those were the ones I was trying to upload anyway. Many thanks!

4472 is not finished - I had spotted the pipe cover running the length of the boiler and amazingly it's still there every time I go back to the old photos!

I've also noticed the plaque which seems to be attached to it half way along the engine, and have no idea what it says!

(PM reply posted!)

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Blink Bonny
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by Blink Bonny » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:34 pm

Ay up!

I can help you with the little wiggly pipe on the smokebox - copper. From the diameter, it looks like the "boxing" down the boiler side covered lubrication pipes.

So - did 4472 have a sight-feed lubricator in the cab? And what did it lubricate? I've never heard of a "jumper" blast pipe top on a Gresley Pacific. Unless someone knows better?
If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:59 pm

Apparently, 4472's driving wheels were lifted an inch or so off the rails and an electric motor provided power so they would revolve. I don't suppose that sleeve and wiring could have been anything to do with that?

I'm not sure that I will attempt to incorporate that feature in my diorama!

Why is that even simple ideas become devilishly complicated before your realise it?

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:03 pm

One of the other ideas I had some time ago was to create a post war garter blue A4 from a RTR valenced pre-war model. The no doubt sound advice I received recommended a repaint of a BR or wartime black model but I have since learnt that Phoenix have dropped the aerosol garter blue and unless equipped with an airbrush and the skill to use it, then it would be a brush job, and who know what sort of finish?

So, encouraged by Atlantis 3279's comment that it might well be possible to cut away the valances, I've finally butchered one side of a Railroad Falcon as the following pictures show.

Firstly crude template created from downloaded Hornby picture matched for size with the model.
IMG_7403.JPG
Crude template attached equally crudely to model:
IMG_7404.JPG
Then marked with indelible pen and eye, and off to shed for the evil deed!

Graeme would cry if he saw my technique and tools used! I started with snips carefully nibbling away, wary of splitting the casing, until I was left with a small amount of surplus body that could be simply filed away (with files rather to big for the purpose). Finally a bit of sanding and general eyeing-up.

It's not perfect by any means, and might need a bit more off in front of the cylinder casing but.....well you be the judges!
IMG_7407.JPG
Of course there is the little matter of doing the same to the other side without destroying it, and doing something (as Graeme is doing with the A1/1), to sort out the missing firebox base.

I think this method has at least some mileage - just think what you proper modellers could do!

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Re: Projects-Empire Ex 4472; grey Woodcock; valence surgery!....

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:41 am

I'm glad to see that you've tested my idea and found it sound. The result looks good to me. If you need to touch in any chips in the blue finish, you may find it handy to use Railmatch Garter Blue, with perhaps the tiniest addition of Doncaster Green, then re-varnish the lot to uniform finish if the shine doesn't match.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

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60800
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Re: Projects-Empire Ex 4472; grey Woodcock; valence surgery!....

Post by 60800 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:49 am

Personally, I think it's brilliant. I've been wanting to do the same for ages, but I don't have the courage or the spare money lying around to do so. I was wanting to do 4498 in her early preservation guise, but with a super detail model, not a railroad one.

Keep the butchering coming :mrgreen:
36C - Based out of 50H and 36F

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