restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

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Blink Bonny
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up!

Mallard in BR green with a corr tender.

Hmmmmm..... :mrgreen:
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60800
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by 60800 »

Mallard could be painted in Br experimental purple :wink:

OR

they could restore the b####y thing, buld some new water troughs south of Newcastle and try to do a non-stopper with her from Kings cross to Edinburgh Waverly.

Thinking about it, a non stopper from say Kings Cross to Newcastle would be a great way to bring Scotsman back in style :mrgreen:
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Blink Bonny
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up!

Alternatively, we could use two tenders. How authentic would THAT be? :mrgreen:
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brsince78
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by brsince78 »

Idle speculation it may be but..........

borrow Scotsmans or No.9's corridor tender (5000 gallons), borrow No. 19's second tender (9000 gallons) and the Water Carrier from Tyseley (7500 gallons).........my maths makes that 21500 gallons @ 45 gallons per mile = 477 miles.

Unfortunately it appears that the GUV body does not have a corridor:-
http://campainr.webs.com/apps/photos/ph ... d=78509058

..... and all that weight in tow + the P.O.B. would reduce the number of passenger carrying coaches to about 5 even without a diesel on the back for insurance. :shock:
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by Albergman »

I just checked the NRM site for news and saw the latest batch of pictures (released Feb 1st) on what is being done.
http://www.nrm.org.uk/flyingscotsman/see/photos

If I'm reading this correctly, all this work is being done as a result of the cracks discovered last June(?). It boggles the mind ... well, mine anyway, that so much has been discovered at such a late date.

Am I missing something?
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by richard »

Albergman: Read the full thread. The NRM aren't saying much but a manager from the project is no longer employed by them...


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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by delticfan »

The subject may have been covered before but I can't get my head round the direction the work towards Flying Scotsman is taking. I am no expert on the subject but I understand the Flying Scotsman is a bit of an enigma wrapped up in a myth to quote good old Mr Churchill. From the time it was withdrawn in 1963 it went to the plant for overhaul tender 5640 was swopped for 5325, 5640 ended up with A4 Lord Faringdon then to Kingfisher. 5325 had been attached to Lord Faringdon and Seagull maybe others too.

In 1966 A3 Salmon Trout was stripped and spares earmarked for 4472. According to Yeadon 4472 went through about 10 boilers in her lifetime. The point I am getting to is that what actually on 4472 is original what defines it as 4472, I suppose it depends on how you look at it either during service or after it was retired. There is a picture in Peter Coster's Book of the A3 Pacifics page 59 of an A3 stripped just its cab and frames, the conclusion you come to is that Flying Scotsman as it stands today may only be original of its frames and you might want to question that, who knows where they have been in their lifetime? Does it really warrant restoration at all costs or would new fabricated parts be a kind of cheating? I know what I would do if it was my money - do what the plant did best!
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up, delticfan!

Even the frames are replacements. 4472 was one of the engines who's frames were found to be in such a state in the 1950s as to justify replacement.

As a former Crewe works painter once told me. The number is the one the painter is told to paint onto it.
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delticfan
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by delticfan »

I had heard rumours even frames could sometimes be found to be swopped or completely new. It sort of makes a mockery of the fuss about 4472, I agree it is iconic but it's not like a pricleless painting and I can't understand why so much time and money is wasted on it. If they want to have it running which is great, make new frames - who can argue about it? The technology is there, perhaps there is a reason not to?
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by mick b »

There was a pool of spare frames. The A1/A3's all suffered from cracking frames
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

The "fuss" relates entirely to the fact that it's unique, and has through its three owners, accomplished some quite remarkable achievements.

First authenticated 100mph run, first non stop run to Edinburgh (whilst another A1 - Shotover I think - did the "up" run in the opposite direction), it was the only preserved engine to run on the mainline for several years, it has traveled to, and across the length and breadth of the United States, and was the steam locomotive to have gone non stop across the Australian Outback for the furthest distance (it still holds a world record for this).

It may be a "grandfather's broom" of a locomotive, but the point remains that the place occupied in space and time has always been known as "Flying Scotsman", and it is this engine which stands as a talisman for the preservation movement. No other engine has its history, achievements or profile.

Rightly it is highly regarded by the general public, and I find it increasingly a shame that it is unloved for the most part within the preservation movement, for which as an ambassador for steam it has been hugely successful, despite well published (and less well publicized) problems over the last decade or so.

But may I add, I agree entirely with the three or four gentlemen above me who are advocating "doing what the plant did best" - Scotsman is not wholly original and to manufacture new components for her is both sensible and necessary.
delticfan
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by delticfan »

Very well described, it is almost that its achievements after withdrawl equals if not exceeds what it did in service. To occupy both a space and time as Flying Scotsman is an accurate description, it is almost a continuous link with the past without being completely 100% original, something which for example Tornado is and could never be.
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by mick b »

Its about 10% original at most.

I would think far more people of the younger generation have heard of Tornado.
, that may change if and when Scotsman returns to the rails.
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

delticfan wrote:Very well described, it is almost that its achievements after withdrawl equals if not exceeds what it did in service. To occupy both a space and time as Flying Scotsman is an accurate description, it is almost a continuous link with the past without being completely 100% original, something which for example Tornado is and could never be.
It's an interesting one, isn't it? The way I see it, Tornado is making her own history. A ghost of the past, a Lazarus machine - something which is evocatively symbolic of the past, but a celebration of the times we live in. There's no doubt that the story behind building the first mainline steam locomotive for fifty plus years will go down in history.

What she has done since coming into service, including, but not limited to, pulling the royal train, racing a motorbike and a Jaguar up to Scotland, top gear all the way (!), and of course the boiler troubles (for you cannot appreciate the good times without experiencing and appreciating the bad times) and the charisma of a group passionate for their locomotive - well, if not strictly historical, she is definitely a breath of fresh air (pun intended).

Many children will have heard of Tornado, but my experience tells me that 4472 & 60163 are on an equal footing. Equally loved for being two similarly sized and styled machines, but loved for their complete contrast in "history".

I feel we have the best of both worlds - that link to the past, as you so rightly put it, delticfan, and the ghost made corporeal.

Exciting times we live in, as LNER fans. A G5 and an F5 in various states of build, and the possibility of not one, but two P2 projects over the next twenty odd years.
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Re: restoration or conservation the flying scotsman

Post by Boris »

One set of water troughs near Newcastle, she would have run out well before that, I think there were six sets between KX and Edinborough

Two tenders, same, no where near enough for 300+ miles
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