Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
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Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Harry Fitzgerald joined the L.N.E.R. presumedly as a telegraph lad (box lad) sometime during the late-1930s and was known to have been at onetime a regular-signalman during the late 1940s & 1950s at the following s/boxes- Holloway south Up, East Goods yard, Finsbury Park no.4, Wood Green no.1, Wood Green Tunnel box, Cuffley on the Hertford branch and finally going to Welwyn Garden City (in that order) sometime in either the late 1950s or the very early 1960s and remaining at WGC until the time the box closed in September 1976. After the box closed Harry transferred onto the station platform at Hatfield for the rest of his time on the railway being promoted to a station chargeman during the early 1980s. During WW2 Harry left the railway to serve in the R.N. for the duration of the war but on being demobbed after the war he returned to the railway as a signalman. Harry use to live in a house for many years on the downside of the line at the back of what is now days Welham Green station. I believe Harry may have died sometime between 1986-1988?.
Cecil White joined the L.N.E.R. again presumedly as a telegraph lad sometime during the mid-1920s possibly originating from the Lincolnshire area?. Cecil was the older of the 3 signalmen at Welwyn Garden City during the 1960s and into the 1970s and was possibly at the box from sometime during the mid-1950s onwards through until i believe when he retired from the box sometime around 1974. Cecil use to live for many years in a house at Woolmer Green.
Alan 'pedler' Palmer joined the L.N.E.R. again presumedly as a telegraph lad around the Peterborough area sometime during the late-1930s. Alan's first box as a signalman after WW2 was at Lolham (north of Peterborough) but his next known box was at Potters Bar (the 1950s panel box at Potters Bar station) sometime during the late 1950s afterwhich he transferred to Hatfield no.1 for a period of time before transferring again to Welwyn Garden City during the early 1960s. Like Harry Fitzgerald Alan left the railway for the duration of WW2 serving in R.A.F. Bomber Command flying in Lancaster bombers until being demobbed after the war and re-joining the railway again. After WGC box closed in 1976 Alan remained in the signalling grade and transferred to Kings Cross PSB where he retired from there in 1987. Alan use to live in a house somewhere around Welwyn north.
* * *I presume Alan was known as Alan 'pedler' Palmer because he always use to arrive and depart the box at Welwyn Garden City on a bicycle.* * *
Cecil White joined the L.N.E.R. again presumedly as a telegraph lad sometime during the mid-1920s possibly originating from the Lincolnshire area?. Cecil was the older of the 3 signalmen at Welwyn Garden City during the 1960s and into the 1970s and was possibly at the box from sometime during the mid-1950s onwards through until i believe when he retired from the box sometime around 1974. Cecil use to live for many years in a house at Woolmer Green.
Alan 'pedler' Palmer joined the L.N.E.R. again presumedly as a telegraph lad around the Peterborough area sometime during the late-1930s. Alan's first box as a signalman after WW2 was at Lolham (north of Peterborough) but his next known box was at Potters Bar (the 1950s panel box at Potters Bar station) sometime during the late 1950s afterwhich he transferred to Hatfield no.1 for a period of time before transferring again to Welwyn Garden City during the early 1960s. Like Harry Fitzgerald Alan left the railway for the duration of WW2 serving in R.A.F. Bomber Command flying in Lancaster bombers until being demobbed after the war and re-joining the railway again. After WGC box closed in 1976 Alan remained in the signalling grade and transferred to Kings Cross PSB where he retired from there in 1987. Alan use to live in a house somewhere around Welwyn north.
* * *I presume Alan was known as Alan 'pedler' Palmer because he always use to arrive and depart the box at Welwyn Garden City on a bicycle.* * *
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Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Welwyn Garden City signalmen October 1939
NOTE: The records here are handwritten, not typed, and maybe subject to transcription errors, for which I apologise in advance. Some handwriting is more legible than others.
Frank Charles Birch b 30/1/1891 - entered service 18/10/1909 - pay £3 10s per week
George Henry Burton b 1/1/1892 - entered service -/3/1909 - pay £3 10s per week
John Robert Dolby b 6/8/1892 - entered service -/5/1907 - pay £3 10s per week
Station Box
James Betteridge b 2/12/1900 - entered service -/3/1915 - pay £3 5s per week
Horace Ball b 13/8/1902 - entered service 13/1/1917 - pay £3 5s per week
John Lilley b 12/1/1901 - entered service 1/10/1917 - pay £3 5s per week
NOTE: The records here are handwritten, not typed, and maybe subject to transcription errors, for which I apologise in advance. Some handwriting is more legible than others.
Frank Charles Birch b 30/1/1891 - entered service 18/10/1909 - pay £3 10s per week
George Henry Burton b 1/1/1892 - entered service -/3/1909 - pay £3 10s per week
John Robert Dolby b 6/8/1892 - entered service -/5/1907 - pay £3 10s per week
Station Box
James Betteridge b 2/12/1900 - entered service -/3/1915 - pay £3 5s per week
Horace Ball b 13/8/1902 - entered service 13/1/1917 - pay £3 5s per week
John Lilley b 12/1/1901 - entered service 1/10/1917 - pay £3 5s per week
John. My spotting log website is now at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/
Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Relief signalmen J.R. Dolby who was at Welwyn north s/box along with regular signalman J. Betteridge and telegraph lad M. Winter at Welwyn Garden City s/box were all on duty on the morning that the accident happened just to the south of Welwyn Garden City station just south of the 20th Mile bridge in January 1957 all are mentioned in the official accident report.
Last edited by Mickey on Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
I am awaiting approval from the relevant authorities before I transcribe anything more from the records.
I am worried about copyright infringement.
I am worried about copyright infringement.
John. My spotting log website is now at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/
Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
I recall the name Horace Ball being mentioned a number of times in conversations with a former Welwyn Garden City telegraph lad called Alan Dollimore who was at the box circa 1962/63 back in 1968-70.strang steel wrote:Welwyn Garden City signalmen October 1939
Horace Ball b 13/8/1902 - entered service 13/1/1917 - pay £3 5s per week
Also Horace was on duty at Welwyn north s/box at the time of the 1935 & 1957 accidents at Welwyn Garden City.
Also two former Welwyn Garden City signalmen are F.C.Birch who was at the box when it openend in 1926 and was still there in 1935.
Fred Hows who was at the box in 1935 and was involved in the accident at Welwyn Garden City in 1935.
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Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Fred Howes wasn't sacked after the collision in 1935 but was reduced in grade and became a guard. Ted Nye told me that - seems the LNER must have taken pity on him.
One other signalman, still with us as far as I'm aware, who worked Welwyn Garden City box in the 1950s was Relief Signalman Tim Hatton, who was on duty before the accident in 1957. He must have been very young then.
One other signalman, still with us as far as I'm aware, who worked Welwyn Garden City box in the 1950s was Relief Signalman Tim Hatton, who was on duty before the accident in 1957. He must have been very young then.
A topper is proper if the train's a non-stopper!
Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Interesting Frank i didn't know that the company kept Fred Hows on after the accident also i recently foundout that Fred had been a signalman since 1912 (according to one website entry) and lived at no.26 Ludwick Way in Welwyn Garden City if anyone on here knows WGC?.hq1hitchin wrote:Fred Howes wasn't sacked after the collision in 1935 but was reduced in grade and became a guard. Ted Nye told me that - seems the LNER must have taken pity on him.
I recall Mr.Hatton i think he was a signalling D.I. by the early 1970s showing up a couple of times at WGC box and sitting chatting to the signalman (possibly Cecil White?) and i recall that Mr.Hatton was a well respected railwayman by everyone around that area.hq1hitchin wrote:One other signalman, still with us as far as I'm aware, who worked Welwyn Garden City box in the 1950s was Relief Signalman Tim Hatton, who was on duty before the accident in 1957. He must have been very young then.
A few of the relief signalmen i recall working WGC in the early 1970s were-
1.Norman Greenwood.
2.Dave Tilbury.
3.Bill Taylor (a Geordie)
4.A fella with the surname Jones (i can't recall his first name?) a ex-Yorkshire miner in another life before becoming a railway signalman.
Relief signalmen like Charlie Cooper, Stan Crouch, Stan Colbert & P.J.Cleverley who were around the area in the 1960s & early 1970s never signed the box for whatever reasons?.
Roy Revell only trained and signed the box after the NX panel was commissioned late in 1973 i presume because i think Roy was a Hitchin relief signalman a bit like P.J.Cleverley so probably WGC wasn't really one of there boxes to work?.
Also there was a young fella called Tony Fane from my old secondary school who done a year in the box between 1971-72 as a telegraph lad plus mention should be made of Ron Hawkins a older signalman who was 'green carded' (light duties) who was also doing the booking at the box from about 1971 or 72 through to either 1975 or 76?. Ron had been a regular signalman at Hitchin yard box at onetime plus myself who was also a telegraph lad at the box between July 1972-Mar 1974 and probably the proudest moment in my 41 years railway service so far which has never been surpassed yet.
Several other names of telegraph lads who were at the box are-
1.Alan Dollimore 1962-63.
2.Ray Jones a relief telegraph lad during the early 1960s.
3.M.Winter 1954-57.
4.There was also a telegraph lad at the box during the 1968-71 period who lived at Brookmans Park and who transferred onto the loco at Kings Cross but i have forgotten his name?.
Plus all the other former unnamed signalmen & telegraph lads who were at the box between 1926-1976.
Great days...
Last edited by Mickey on Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
If it who i think it is he's still about and active on the GN...Micky wrote:hq1hitchin wrote: 3.M.Winter 1954-57.
Great days...
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Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Would the (part) name, "Colin R." fit the bill here Micky? ... subsequently became an (early) Eurostar driver I feel sure, and last time we met briefly, at KX 'Sub'n' stn. (prob. 10+ years ago), I think he'd progressed to Driver Instructor with them.Micky wrote: " .... 4.There was also a telegraph lad at the box during the 1968-71 period who lived at Brookmans Park and who transferred onto the loco at Kings Cross but i have forgotten his name?. .... "
BZOH
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Re: Signalmen at Welwyn Garden City s/box.
Yes thats the fella Stevie Colin. I didn't know him personally but i recall seeing him on a number of occasions between 1968-71 nipping up or down the box staircase to exchange the single line train staff with the secondmen on the front of the Ashburton Grove-Blackbridge sdgs rubbish trains and there return working, i also recall that he was always dressed in a B.R. uniform of dark trousers a white shirt & tie and a dark B.R. westcote (very smart!).StevieG wrote:Would the (part) name, "Colin R." fit the bill here Micky? ... subsequently became an (early) Eurostar driver I feel sure, and last time we met briefly, at KX 'Sub'n' stn. (prob. 10+ years ago), I think he'd progressed to Driver Instructor with them.Micky wrote: " .... 4.There was also a telegraph lad at the box during the 1968-71 period who lived at Brookmans Park and who transferred onto the loco at Kings Cross but i have forgotten his name?. .... "