Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

[Jim de Griz]

I was actually typing a response explaining why I'd decided to not try modifying the doors, when I changed my mind. Figured this was supposed to be an experiment and it is a 'spare' coach so why not give it a try.

I didn't get on well with the drill and file approach, not least because the side promptly separated from the roof....

Instead (as I had already broken two doors) I decided to try cutting out the entire upper door (razor saw for the vertical cuts, knife for the horizontal) and then rebuilding the top-light much as I'd done the surrounding windows

ALOT easier when the side is firmly attached to the roof.

Putting in the horizontal bars was only tricky because they needed to match the bars either side and still be level. I think I mostly got that right.

After that I used very thin pieces of plasticard to build up any framework that had been damaged. Still needs filling etc, but I wanted to give the poly cement and superglue plenty of time to set solid before trying that.

Only after I took the photos did I notice that I had missed one of the false doors so had to carefully go and do that.

As an aside, opening up the windows above the doors completely change the look of the corridor side of the coach. I was surprised at the difference it makes.

Jim de Griz

[kimballthurlow]

...a knife blade instead of the razor saw also tends to create a ridge of displaced plastic on each side of the cut, so that the surface has to be re-smoothed rather more than it would if a neat razor saw cut is achieved, so there's extra risk of damaging surface features / finish.
We all have our preferred methods. Whatever works best for you is the way to do it.

Hi Graeme,
Yes the ridging is a definite downside when using a blade.
Maybe my razor saws are a bit thick.
I purchased them about 50 years ago.

Kimball

[Jim de Griz]

Hello Jim,
I find your project interesting and will follow it to the end.

Apologies, I'd meant to thank you for your kind comment in my last post.

I have a new tool

The reason for this purchase was my clerestory conversion from page 3. I hadn't noticed that the doors should have windows above them until I rechecked Atlantic's thread and once I had noticed the mistake, I couldn't stop noticing it.

The roof is in particular is a touch fragile so when I spotted the small saw blades I wondered if they might be delicate enough tools for the job.

As it turns out yes, they are small enough to fit in the windows with just about the right amount of cutting power to cut out the window shape without breaking the rest of the coach.

I had been planning on repainting this coach so this wasn't too painful a process.

Again, it would have been easier putting in the bars across the window if they had all been done together. This only took about an hour and a half and while I need more practice filing square corners, I think it did the job. Both coaches have just had a coat of teak paint, it will be interesting too see what they look like when dry.

Jim de Griz

[Atlantic 3279]

Interesting method. Ordinarily, I'd probably call that gadget a keyhole saw. Does Revell give it a different name?

[Danby Wiske]

Interesting method. Ordinarily, I'd probably call that gadget a keyhole saw. Does Revell give it a different name?

They call it a Precision Saw, although I imagine the degree of precision has far more to do with the operator than the tool!

Good looking coaches, Jim - I'm following this thread with interest...

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks. I'm inclined to think that the teeth are rather coarse for the "precision" description.

[Jim de Griz]

The Howlden Clerestory is back in service with the droplights over the doors corrected and a slightly darker teak finish.

The Gresley has been somewhat delayed as I got heavy handed with the teak finish and had to sand down and start again on most of the panels. However one side is now finished with transfers fitted. Just waiting for the varnish to dry so I can repeat the process on the otherside.

I've also modified the undercarriage, using slightly thicker wire than last time to represent the turnbuckle bracing. I think it might be a bit too thick, I might need to find something in the middle because the wire I used last time is quite hard to see when the model is actually on my layout.

I'm using Isinglass bogies again, but they seemed to have changed their design, lowering the ride height to far close to the Hornby bodies. I've not had to make any modifications this time. I'm experimenting with Gibson wheels rather than Romfords, so I'll see if they make any sort of difference.

Thanks. I'm inclined to think that the teeth are rather coarse for the "precision" description.

I'd somewhat agree. They make starting the cut quite difficult, but once started I don't have too much issue getting a straight cut, particularly with the heavier blade.

Good looking coaches, Jim - I'm following this thread with interest...

Thank you!

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

Corridor side done

A bit of touching up left to do and the glazing to be fitted, hopefully I'll be able to test her as part of a rake tomorrow

....

Embarrassingly confession time, I've just checked the diagram and there should only be 7 windows on the corridor side, not 8! I think I got the diagrams confused when I planned this project and was looking at the Corridor Third when I decided no work was required on the corridor side.....it is annoying because I was aiming to get as close to the diagram as I could and I've fallen short of that goal though my own mistake.

On the plus side, I've proven I can take a side off, rearrange it and reattach it without too much drama. I've also learned how to model the doors better so I can do better next time!

However, next time will require parts from a doner coach, so I'll need to spend a bit of time planning out exactly which diagrams I do and when in order to reduce wastage.


It does raise an interesting question though regarding pragmatic modifications. Obviously this one was a straightforward mistake. But, I am looking at future conversions of corridor brakes in brake thirds that to be 100% accurate would require not just resizing both 1st class compartments, but also moving the double doors in the guard compartment and (if I'm reading the diagram right) switching the sides round as the LNER and GNR apparently put the corridor on different sides of the coach.....or I could just switch a door and window round on the corridor side, fill in two windows, add some beading and get something that looks the part, is 80-90% correct, but will ultimately be wrong.

Given that the dimensions of the base coach as not exactly 100% correct anyway, Is there a point at which the effort to further improve accuracy simply outweighs any potential benefit? (After all, at some point I simply have to admit that I might as well buy the corresponding Isinglass kit and be done with it.) Is that a question that can only be answered by the individual modeller in question? And for that matter, does it any of it matter if I'm still enjoying the process and still proud of the result?

(Edit: Question, was the corridor side an oddity of the Sheffield Stock, rather than a standard GNR feature? I ask because I noticed that the Sheffield First Brake has its corridor on the other side from the Brake Third, presumable to ensure a consistent window line down the train)

Jim de Griz

[Atlantic 3279]

How far to go? My view is that we all set our own standards. It may be that so long as the builder thinks the model has a believable appearance, then he will be happy with the result. Some builders may only be happy if they take correctness to the point at which they think that most other people/modellers will believe that the model looks right. Some may only be satisfied if they go to such lengths that they can expect nobody to find errors in the model.
So long as the result is not obviously crude, an eyesore or a disaster, then from my point of view the very fact that a model has been created (or extensively altered/improved) by hand makes the result worthy of at least some admiration. I find the products of computerised home techno-manufacture much less admirable, no matter how much more precise and detailed they may (or may not) be.

[kimballthurlow]

.....
I've also modified the undercarriage, using slightly thicker wire than last time to represent the turnbuckle bracing. I think it might be a bit too thick, I might need to find something in the middle because the wire I used last time is quite hard to see when the model is actually on my layout.

Underframe.jpg
...
Thank you!

Jim de Griz

Hi Jim,
I think you have done a great job on the trusses (and the cut and shut on hte bodies.
To my mind the truss is way thinner and more like the original than the Hornby underframe, so that is a plus for me.
Kimball

[Danby Wiske]

The removal of the door ventilators was definitely worth the effort. It completely changes the appearance of the coach...

As regards "accuracy" - I suppose it depends whether you are doing this primarily for your own satisfaction, or for the satisfaction of others. If the latter - good luck!

[Jim de Griz]

Final touches done and with a little swearing at the bogies she is now running in service

Interesting to compare her with the Isinglass GNR Third Brake

She has come out darker than intended (painting teak seems to be more art than science), but looking at old photos I think a little variation in a rake is probably desirable. She also rides a touch lower, which is amusing because the coaches either side are running on the older Isinglass bogies that I filed down to match the other Hornby coaches. I don't think the difference is too noticeable to be honest. If I find it bugging me later I'll go to the effort of taking the bogies off and fitting a spacer, at the minute I'm just pleased that she is running next to the 12 wheeler without causing any derailments. I don't want to rock the boat right now!

Overall I'm happy with the outcome. Noting the inaccuracies already pointed out above, I feel I can point to her and with a straight face call her a model of a GNR Coach, rather than admitting that she is in fact an undersized model of an LNER Coach.

Now to plan the next conversions.

Edit: On the subject of which, does anyone have any advice regarding lining? I've been trying to apply with a paint brush with limited success.

Jim de Griz

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all from sunny Surrey

The classic method of lining is by bow-pen. I have one and it needs practice to get right.

Lighter fuel added to enamel seems better than acrylic with low improver, but my results are not very consistent.

I've enjoys this thread as I've a few old Hornby coaches which could be utilised.

Earlswood Nob

[jwealleans]

Lining Gresleys is fairly easy as the beading is there to guide you. I did my first ones with a very cheap and nasty bow pen from a school drawing set.

Use sharp cotton buds and a cocktail stick dipped in white spirit to clean up the lines where you do wobble.

[Atlantic 3279]

I did my first ones with a very cheap and nasty bow pen from a school drawing set.

Exactly what my lining pen still is, with suitably honed nib. It's all I had and all I thought I could afford when I first tried to do lining in paint. By the time I'd been through the frustrations of learning to use it in a way that gives satisfying results, I could see no no need to spend money on a posh lining pen which might require another learning process.