Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

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Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by Autocar Publicity » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:52 pm

What's the difference between Mark 2s and Mark 2a coaches? I've just been asked this and I'm not sure. I remember Bachmann selling Mark 2Ss FKs in maroon and green, as well as Mark 2As, and don't remember seeing a difference. I'm sure there is, if only very minor, so can someone add to our education? Thanks.

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by 65447 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:01 pm

I expect that if you could be bothered you could find this Wiki answer all by yourself... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_2 ... took me 10 seconds (and gained me 0.5 Nectar points).

However, according to this Bachmann listing, no Mk 2S has been produced (if a prototype ever existed) - check pages 62-63 at the very end.
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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by Andy W » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:52 pm

The Mk 2S is really MK2's misspelt, later to become 2Z designation, introduced when passenger carrying coaching stock went on TOPS. They wanted to distinguish between all the Mk 2 sub classes but plain original MK 2 wouldn't do so they became MK 2Z.

The Mk 2a is basically a Mk 2 with a different vestibule area & a more modern toilet and gangways. The Mk 2a build was the first to be all air brake from new.

The first production batches of Mk 2 were FK type and these were delivered in Maroon and Green. All later batches of other types of Mk 2 (i.e. TSO, BSO etc.) came out in Blue/Grey.

A Mk 2 FK in Maroon (E13361-78) would be a sight that you would see on the ECML from the summer of 1964 onwards. The next Mk 2 vehicles that ER got were the MK 2a fleet that started to enter ECML service in late 1967.

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by James Brodie » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:42 pm

Dear Sirs,is the reference to Mk2s meaning mark 2 coaches plural and Mk2a particular ie Mk 2a or b or c etc
as the coaches graduated from vac brake to dual brake and steam heat to ETH then along came the 2Ds and then 3s. I stopped my modelling eras at the end of the Gresley and Thompson coaches and Teak colour.
Jim Brodie.

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by Autocar Publicity » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:20 pm

I am disappointed that 65447 thought I was so lazy as not to take a look on the Internet before posting. I actually spent 10-15 minutes searching, didn't find that Wiki piece very helpful or have any luck elsewhere, so thought I'd ask on here.

I am familiar with Mark 2a's, b's, d's, e's and f's (I include grammatically incorrct apostrophes for clarity) and was dimly aware of the original Mark 2's - though didn't know they became 2Z's.

Thankyou for your information Andy, that confirms much of what I thought and adds a bit to my knowledge.

I remember the Bachmann Mark 2S models as being only the FKs in maroon and green - ie. the very early ones and the other models were 2A's or 2B's. It stuck in my mind as it was both an irregular progression of sub-type suffixes and a long way from where I'd expect BR to start (ie. 'A'!) The Bachmann list 65447 gives doesn't refer to any Mark 2S's or Z's.

If you look most of the way down this page from Hattons, http://www.hattons.co.uk/products/categ ... coaches-00, then you'll see that 39-332 is described as a maroon Mark 2S ... I wonder if this is an error on Bachmann's part, possibly from a printing error? A bit further down, you see some other listings of Mark 2S's, including types in blue grey, which I didn't think existed. :? :? :? ....

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by mistahjim » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:51 am

I've noticed a couple of label errors on Bachmann products in the past, so this could well be the explanation; the majority of the staff at Hatton's aren't generally railway enthusiasts or modellers and so wouldn't notice the mistake.
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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by robertcwp » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:43 pm

I would not trust anything on Wiki, even though some of it is true. You are much more likely to get a sensible answer by asking a question on a forum such as this than through any amount of Internet surfing.

Mark 2S is a fantasy created by Bachmann. The Z designation came in much later with the POIS codes as they needed something to distinguish a Mark 2 from a Mark 2a etc and also from other coach variants such as Mark 1. Just to muddy the waters a bit, some Mark 2a were later converted to vacuum brakes (mostly firsts and brake firsts) and some Mark 2 were converted to air brakes including those used on the Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pulls, which had disc brakes.

Outwardly, a key distinguishing feature if you can see the vehicle end is that Mark 2 had Mark 1 style end gangway doors whereas Mark 2a introduced a new folding design of door, coloured light green on Mark 2a seconds and brake seconds and a lurid shade of orange on Mark 2a firsts and brake firsts (Bachmann's 2a firsts are incorrect in having green doors). In addition to 209 Mark 2a coaches, the ECML also had 11 Mark 2b corridor firsts from new - this variant introduced the wrap-round doors at the vehicle ends.
Last edited by robertcwp on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by 65447 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:09 pm

robertcwp wrote:I would not trust anything on Wiki, even though some of it is true. You are much more likely to get a sensible answer by asking a question on a forum such as this than through any amount of Internet surfing.
You can come across an awful lot of cr@p on some forums, but you are much more likely to get the best answer on a forum dedicated to the particular subject - and this one does not fulfil that criterion in this instance, but internet surfing might lead you to one that does... :wink:
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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by strang steel » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:28 pm

I would have thought that the 'bible' on this subject must be BR Mk2 Coaches by Michael Harris. I dont have a copy, but if it is anything like his similar book on the Mk1s (which I do possess), then it will be full of interesting detail and much more reliable than Wikipedia.

Also, try this thread on RMweb
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... detailing/

about half way down the first page, although most of the thread is concerned with modelling.
John

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by robertcwp » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:22 pm

65447 wrote:
robertcwp wrote:I would not trust anything on Wiki, even though some of it is true. You are much more likely to get a sensible answer by asking a question on a forum such as this than through any amount of Internet surfing.
You can come across an awful lot of cr@p on some forums, but you are much more likely to get the best answer on a forum dedicated to the particular subject - and this one does not fulfil that criterion in this instance, but internet surfing might lead you to one that does... :wink:
Like this one perhaps?

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BRCoachingStock/

I am the founder and Group Owner.

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by robertcwp » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:24 pm

strang steel wrote:I would have thought that the 'bible' on this subject must be BR Mk2 Coaches by Michael Harris. I dont have a copy, but if it is anything like his similar book on the Mk1s (which I do possess), then it will be full of interesting detail and much more reliable than Wikipedia.
I don't think the late Michael Harris did a book on Mark I stock. However Keith Parkin did. The Mark 2 book by Michael Harris was one of his last and has been reprinted recently. Both the Parkin and Harris books are well worth having though neither is perfect.

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Re: Mark 2 coaches: A & S sub-types

Post by R. pike » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:12 am

A friend has been uploading photos recently that includes this one showing a MK2 FK with MK1 style corridor connections.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicholasy/ ... 777734570/

There are some other coach pictures on the site also, most probably being the last photos taken of them before their one way trip from Ely to Snailwell..

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