The Elizabethen Express

[silver fox]

Does the station at the begining look like Waterloo from the same vantige point as the Terence Cuneo painting?

[hq1hitchin]

Does the station at the begining look like Waterloo from the same vantige point as the Terence Cuneo painting?

Correct, Mark - view from the General Offices, if I remember rightly. Still an impressive sight and, it has to be said, an impressive station.

[robertcwp]

I watched the film again recently and spotted that in the shot of 60017 emerging from Calton Tunnel approaching Waverley, the first two coaches of the train are missing. There should be a BCK, TK at the front. These were the Aberdeen through coaches. Perhaps after the Aberdeen coaches had been detached, they coupled 60017 up again, dragged it out eastwards then ran it back in again to film an 'arrival' shot from a different position.

The only vehicle number I could read was E1142E - the leading BCK in the Aberdeen portion in the shots at King's Cross. This was one of the vehicles Michael Harris listed as having been used in the train in 1953.

One of the interior shots appears to show an attendant in one of the ladies' retiring rooms.

[silver fox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5kLJdCE ... re=related

[52D]

There is a pub in Highfields, Bewick upon Tweed Named the Elizabethan with an A4 on the sign.

[giner]

And one in Stevenage, close to where the old railway station used to be, called The Mallard with our bird on the sign. Any others out there?

[52D]

Giner funnily enough i was going to start a thread regarding LNER related pub signs there is also a Mallard at Doncaster. I will post in the railway section asking for pub sign photos as you do tend to get some howlers with artists not realising they are painting other companys engines for example *** engines in the LNER area.

[Haymarket]

I have a few questions about the Elizabethan express in the early years.

1. Was it always hauled by a corridor-tendered A4 or were suitably equipped A3's sometimes used?

2. Does anyone know the order of coaches that would have made up the train during the time the film was made? I think I have counted 11 coaches altogether in some of the film sequences. Would there have been three coaches devoted to hospitality, namely the kitchen car, dining car and buffet car?

3. I'm trying to recreate the train in model form and Bachmann has Thompson passenger coaches but I don't think the hospitality coaches have been modelled in OO gauge. Does anyone know.

Thanks,

Chris

[L&Y Man]

I watched the Elizabethan film again today.

Is it certain that this was shot in 1954?

I know that's the date given for the film on the BFI DVD compilation.

I noticed various continuity issues with the stock. When the train leaves KX, the corridor third with ladies' retiring room which follows the buffet lounge has the retiring room at the north end; in other shots the vehicle is the opposite way round. Hence, they clearly filmed both train sets.

One run-by shot is of the train going south and another where it is behind trees is a different train with at least one vehicle in teak or ersatz teak.

At Edinburgh, ladies are seen alighting from a Mark I CK but no such vehicle was in the train.

Still a good film though.

There was more than a little artistic licence with this film, as the sequence showing the planing of a path for "The Elizabethan" was also used in "Golden Times of British Railways" where they were planning a path for an express goods! There were others used in other films also, and spotting them makes the films even more interesting.

L&Y Man

[mr B]

Bet they didnt use artists licence in the making of "Smowdrift at Bleath Gill" ?

Mr B ,,, Travels Arriva for free.

[robertcwp]

I have a few questions about the Elizabethan express in the early years.

1. Was it always hauled by a corridor-tendered A4 or were suitably equipped A3's sometimes used?

2. Does anyone know the order of coaches that would have made up the train during the time the film was made? I think I have counted 11 coaches altogether in some of the film sequences. Would there have been three coaches devoted to hospitality, namely the kitchen car, dining car and buffet car?

3. I'm trying to recreate the train in model form and Bachmann has Thompson passenger coaches but I don't think the hospitality coaches have been modelled in OO gauge. Does anyone know.

Thanks,

Chris

Other than in cases of loco failure, always a corridor tender A4 except 1962 when the train was Deltic-hauled.

1953-7 formation was:
BCK(2-3), 2 × TK(7), Buffet Lounge, †TK(6), 2 × TK(7), TO(48), RF(18), †FK(5), BG

Front two for Aberdeen. (2-3) etc indicates number of compartments, (18) etc number of seats in open vehicles, † indicates ladies retiring room.

BCK became Mark I from c1955. For TK, TO read SK, SO from 1956. Aberdeen SK also became Mark I in late 1950s. Sets maroon from 1957.

Buffet lounge omitted from 1958 onwards. SK with ladies’ retiring room replaced by standard SK. More Mark I stock introduced 1961-2.

Aberdeen portion was not always the same vehicles as they worked complex circuits. Main Edinburgh portion was pressure-ventilated Thompson stock except RF not pressure ventilated. BG had valances to match the PV stock.

One set had Gresley RF in final year or two.

Ordinary Bachmann stock needs converting to represent the pressure-ventilated vehicles – Southern Pride do etches etc for this.

[Haymarket]

Thanks for responding so quickly and with such detailed information. I'm not familiar with the coach codes but managed to find an LMS site that explained them. I would have expected more First Class accommodation on the train because of it's non-stop nature. I thought it might have attracted more business passengers as well as holidaymakers.
I did not realize that the kitchen and restaurant car were combined. I remember separate kitchen cars in early LMR expresses. I suppose they had to keep the weight down on the Elizabethan. I have been taking a very close look at the film again and I'm wondering if there are not more than 18 seats in the dining car scene.
Also in the film, I believe the scene after the train has just passed Grantshouse shows that the BG is behind the locomotive so perhaps the set was reversed on that occasion.
Chris

[Haymarket]

To clarify, it's the second train scene after Grantshouse where the train is coming towards the camera.

[L&Y Man]

Bet they didnt use artists licence in the making of "Smowdrift at Bleath Gill" ?

Mr B ,,, Travels Arriva for free.

They did use a little, actually. If you watch the BBC4 programme, "The British Transport Film", shown on 23rd October 2009, they tell you how they did it, along with other BT Films, some well-known, others not so.

L&Y Man

[mr B]

Thank's L&Y Man, I thought the BTC film crew where in-between (with nothing to do) filming and just by chance poor old 78018 became stuck and it was a grab your camera quick situation ! You learn something every day.

Mr B ,,, learning the future